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DWP should hang their heads in shame

41 replies

SmashingEgg · 10/07/2022 09:03

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/dwp-dismisses-300-pages-of-evidence-linking-its-actions-with-countless-deaths/

I have no words to describe how appalling this is.
This isn't a complaint from Fred Smith, this is in depth research that's been dismissed.
Absolutely disgusting.
I'm in a very fortunate position of never having had to deal with them but I really feel for those who do.

OP posts:
ickky · 10/07/2022 10:29

The DWP have blocked the report on the effectiveness of sanctions which means they don't work.

The UN reported that Conservative welfare policies were akin to the 19th Century Workhouses.

The UK has violated its human rights obligations through sustained and widespread cuts to social support, says Professor Philip Alston the UN Rapporteur on extreme poverty.

girlfriend44 · 10/07/2022 10:30

Preeeettyprettygood · 10/07/2022 09:23

They don't sanction you for no reason, and if you are sanctioned you can apply for a recoverable hardship payment.

They can can sanction you for any little thing. They can say you haven't applied for enough jobs. The ones is then on you to appeal and take it to them to investigate if necessary a tribunal. Its been known for things to be overturned. An advisor shouldn't be allowed to sanction on a whim. The whole process is very stressful and unfair. Loads of decisions are overturned which means they shouldn't have been given in the first place.

Sanctions do not get people into work either. All they do is cause a massive headache for people and put pressure on the food banks.

Rahrahrahrahannoyed · 10/07/2022 10:45

I was given 3 sanctions at least by a power hungry job centre job coach. I am disabled and feeling suicidal at the time. I appealed against them and took them to court and won them all back. I was left with out money, other than my rent for months.

ilovesooty · 10/07/2022 10:47

I had a client who was sanctioned because she advised the job centre that she couldn't attend her appointment due to a job interview.

Another of my clients was a 50 year old with epilepsy and early onset dementia. He had a fit, fell and knocked himself unconscious and was in hospital in a coma when his parents received a letter sanctioning him despite the fact that they'd already informed the job centre.

LiptonLemon · 10/07/2022 11:02

I used to be on a disability benefit (ESA) as a teenager. My reassessment was in Manchester 3 days after the Ariana Grande bombing, and in the morning I saw several news articles saying that the road the assessment center was on was police cordoned off due to a suspected bomb, no access allowed. I phoned both DWP and Atos several times that morning, and was told by both that all I could was stay home and ring the next day to explain and my appointment would definitely be rescheduled.

My ESA was then stopped because I hadn’t attended and I wasn’t allowed to reapply for 6 months. I appealed this decision and the decision maker phoned me, imitated me in a mocking voice and told me that I was stupid and pathetic for believing news articles that I’d seen on the internet. I heard all his colleagues roaring with laughter in the background, I was absolutely stunned!

I put in a complaint about him but they said there was nothing they could do because the call hadn’t been recorded. They’re dicks.

TimBoothseyes · 10/07/2022 11:37

pointythings · 10/07/2022 09:24

They make zero allowance for circumstances. People have been sanctioned for missing appointments when they were in hospital. And yes, those sanctions have often been undone - but they should not have happened at all.

There's no consideration for people who are seriously mentally unwell either.

The system is punitive and intended to be so.

I was supporting someone who got sanctioned for not answering phone calls from them. Despite it being on record that she is profoundly deaf and could only be contacted via text or BSL video links. When it was pointed out to them that a phone conversation was impossible the reply I got was "no it's not I'll just shout louder". 🙄

SmashingEgg · 10/07/2022 13:42

@tunnocksreturns2019 I'm really sorry to hear that, and for your loss.
It is absolutely shameful the way that people have been treated, particularly the ones who aren't in a position to fight back .
It paints a very depressing picture of how the vulnerable in our society are treated
Then to dismiss the report which has taken years to compile is staggering.

OP posts:
BlankTimes · 10/07/2022 14:34

@CrossStichQueen
during that time I have liased with their work coach to try and solve it. On Friday their WC told me he was sick of this claimant and their problem and would not be dealing with it any more and put the phone down.

Do you do the 'paper trail' style of correspondence with them?

For every phone conversation you have, email the person you spoke to and note what was said, with a request for follow-up, next steps etc.

In view of hearing the refusal to work with that claimant, I'd email and copy in the head of the WC's Dept at DWP and maybe even my MP too, asking for clarification on which officer I needed to liaise with at the DWP from now on.

When we went to Tribunal for my DD's PIP, the Judge was furious with the DWP. He said all of the panel agreed that enhanced rate for both components should have been awarded on the initial evidence I submitted and he apologised that we had been made to go through the system to reach Tribunal. He then said that IF the DWP had bothered to turn up for our hearing, he would have made them apoogise to us.

Tribunal Judges were very vocal against the DWP in 2017
www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/04/uk-judges-rule-dwp-wrong-to-deny-appeals-over-refused-benefits

www.wellerslawgroup.com/library_pt/judge-criticises-council-and-dwp-for-usurping-attorneys-powers/

And Sir Ernest Ryder's outspoken criticism of the DWP from Nov 2017
"Britain’s most senior tribunal judge says most of the benefits cases that reach court are based on bad decisions where the Department for Work and Pensions has no case at all.
Sir Ernest Ryder, senior president of tribunals, also said the quality of evidence provided by the DWP is so poor it would be “wholly inadmissible” in any other court.
Speaking at a Bar Council event attended by BuzzFeed News this week, Ryder said his judges found that 60% of cases were “no-brainers” where there was nothing in the law or facts that would make the DWP win.
In an extraordinary outburst against what he said was the incompetence of the department, he said he and his fellow judges were so incensed by the volume of cases where there was “no justiciable defence to the appeal” that they were considering sending them back – or charging the DWP for the cases it loses.
He said: “It's an inappropriate use of judicial resources, it's an inappropriate experience for the users, and the cost is simply not right.”
The percentage of cases lost by the DWP on appeal has been growing rapidly. In 2007, 44% of cases heard in the Social Security and Child Support tribunal went against the DWP. Ryder said the figures have now risen to a “staggering” 61%.
He said this was because in most instances the DWP simply had no case at all."
More at www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/most-dwp-benefits-cases-which-reach-court-are-based-on-bad

The website Benefits and Work carries lots of comment on the DWP's practises.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

Preeeettyprettygood · 10/07/2022 14:42

Marsoupial · 10/07/2022 10:17

There's no consideration for people who are seriously mentally unwell either.

I have had a brilliant experience when seriously unwell with mental health with Job Centre and DWP - not everyone who works for the DWP is an asshole. I was treated with care, compassion, given support, advice and a lot of support. My case worker, assessor, job coach were all excellent.

The only people who were not were the Debt service part who said I owed money but still cannot explain why. I am paying it back 50 pounds per month and it is being investigated now - but this was the only part I have found to not be up to standard.

If you are seriously unwell then you don't have to go to appointments in my experience - my job coach filled in the exemption - maybe some don't know about this?

I'm glad to hear you had support ! I'm a case manager and although I don't have any dealing with health assessments,giving sanctions etc, I do my damp hardest to make sure my claimants get the respect, care and treatment they deserve. Unfortunately it can't be said for job centres.
We do all get tarred with the same brush and if there IS something I can change or do to help me claimants I bloody well do it.
When I've had sleepless nights over claims where I cannot do anything and you highlight how that indivual is being treated, but I will not be put in the same category as those who couldn't give a shit

girlfriend44 · 10/07/2022 15:18

Rahrahrahrahannoyed · 10/07/2022 10:45

I was given 3 sanctions at least by a power hungry job centre job coach. I am disabled and feeling suicidal at the time. I appealed against them and took them to court and won them all back. I was left with out money, other than my rent for months.

Exactly this. They probably got a bonus for each person they sanctioned. Don't know how they can sleep at night. They are little Hitlers.

Gingerkittykat · 10/07/2022 15:31

TigerRag · 10/07/2022 09:21

I suspect there's far more to this. They don't just sanction you for no reason at all.

They sanctioned this man for being under the knife having heart surgery and missing his appointment.

Many people who miss appointments have mental health issues, addictions or other problems that make the worksearch commitments impossible, they don't deserve to starve.

How about this man who literally starved to death after his benefits were stopped.

As someone who used to work in welfare rights the most shocking case I saw was a man with borderline learning disabilities and schizophrenia. This was pre UC, he was turned down for ESA because they said he was fit for work and needed to claim jobseekers allowance. He tried to claim JSA but when he was honest about his health they said no because he wasn't well enough to be actively seeking work leaving him with nothing. This was a highly vulnerable young man who simply didn't have the ability to understand or navigate the system.

pointythings · 10/07/2022 15:32

@Preeeettyprettygood I am sure there are good individuals working in the system, but the system itself is deeply broken. When 61% of appeals are successful, something is badly wrong - in a workplace a 61% failure rate would result in the business failing and people losing their jobs. And the true rate of incorrect decisions is probably far higher - the appeal process is deliberately made so painful and onerous that many don't even bother but just suffer and go without the payments they should be getting.

TarasHarp55 · 10/07/2022 15:38

The fact that an individual advisor has the power in his/her hands to literally destroy someone's life and actually cause them to commit suicide is disgusting. There will be people with psychopathic tendencies working in jobs like that. One person shouldn't have that power. Often acting on a whim, because they enjoy that power over people

OriginalM · 10/07/2022 18:11

BlankTimes · 10/07/2022 14:34

@CrossStichQueen
during that time I have liased with their work coach to try and solve it. On Friday their WC told me he was sick of this claimant and their problem and would not be dealing with it any more and put the phone down.

Do you do the 'paper trail' style of correspondence with them?

For every phone conversation you have, email the person you spoke to and note what was said, with a request for follow-up, next steps etc.

In view of hearing the refusal to work with that claimant, I'd email and copy in the head of the WC's Dept at DWP and maybe even my MP too, asking for clarification on which officer I needed to liaise with at the DWP from now on.

When we went to Tribunal for my DD's PIP, the Judge was furious with the DWP. He said all of the panel agreed that enhanced rate for both components should have been awarded on the initial evidence I submitted and he apologised that we had been made to go through the system to reach Tribunal. He then said that IF the DWP had bothered to turn up for our hearing, he would have made them apoogise to us.

Tribunal Judges were very vocal against the DWP in 2017
www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/04/uk-judges-rule-dwp-wrong-to-deny-appeals-over-refused-benefits

www.wellerslawgroup.com/library_pt/judge-criticises-council-and-dwp-for-usurping-attorneys-powers/

And Sir Ernest Ryder's outspoken criticism of the DWP from Nov 2017
"Britain’s most senior tribunal judge says most of the benefits cases that reach court are based on bad decisions where the Department for Work and Pensions has no case at all.
Sir Ernest Ryder, senior president of tribunals, also said the quality of evidence provided by the DWP is so poor it would be “wholly inadmissible” in any other court.
Speaking at a Bar Council event attended by BuzzFeed News this week, Ryder said his judges found that 60% of cases were “no-brainers” where there was nothing in the law or facts that would make the DWP win.
In an extraordinary outburst against what he said was the incompetence of the department, he said he and his fellow judges were so incensed by the volume of cases where there was “no justiciable defence to the appeal” that they were considering sending them back – or charging the DWP for the cases it loses.
He said: “It's an inappropriate use of judicial resources, it's an inappropriate experience for the users, and the cost is simply not right.”
The percentage of cases lost by the DWP on appeal has been growing rapidly. In 2007, 44% of cases heard in the Social Security and Child Support tribunal went against the DWP. Ryder said the figures have now risen to a “staggering” 61%.
He said this was because in most instances the DWP simply had no case at all."
More at www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/most-dwp-benefits-cases-which-reach-court-are-based-on-bad

The website Benefits and Work carries lots of comment on the DWP's practises.
www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

No DWP staff member would give full name and would not give out email addresses. All correspondence is over the phone or to the generic address not addressed to anyone.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 10/07/2022 19:34

Preeeettyprettygood · 10/07/2022 14:42

I'm glad to hear you had support ! I'm a case manager and although I don't have any dealing with health assessments,giving sanctions etc, I do my damp hardest to make sure my claimants get the respect, care and treatment they deserve. Unfortunately it can't be said for job centres.
We do all get tarred with the same brush and if there IS something I can change or do to help me claimants I bloody well do it.
When I've had sleepless nights over claims where I cannot do anything and you highlight how that indivual is being treated, but I will not be put in the same category as those who couldn't give a shit

There are some good assessors and decision makers who work for the dwp because I've had personal experience of them. I've had 3 assessments over the last 10 years, all of them have been truthful and factual. My recent one was a telephone assessment and she couldn't have been kinder.

girlfriend44 · 10/07/2022 19:52

TarasHarp55 · 10/07/2022 15:38

The fact that an individual advisor has the power in his/her hands to literally destroy someone's life and actually cause them to commit suicide is disgusting. There will be people with psychopathic tendencies working in jobs like that. One person shouldn't have that power. Often acting on a whim, because they enjoy that power over people

Exactly this. Should be against the law to starve ppl by punishment. If an advisor sanctions someone and they get the money back and the sanction dosent stand the advisor who started the ball rolling should be docked some of their pay.

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