To think our NHS isn't working?

[Nhs2022]

In many ways I can't fault the NHS, they saved my son and my mum's lives. They gave my aunt 4 years longer than first predicted with AML.

However, I also think there needs to be a conversation about the less life threatening and more mundane services of the NHS. The ones that won't kill you but significantly impact quality of life. These have absolutely fallen apart and the system isn't sustainable.

Why is it so wrong to say key aspects of the NHS are no longer fit for purpose and adults and children are being left miserable but alive?

Is there any sensible solution?

I think I'd happily go for a part and part system.

You’re right. My eldest daughter was treated for ‘depression and anxiety’ for 8 years on the NHS, put on all different tablets for years despite us both telling the GPs that we were sure it was something else, the best years of her life ruined. Not once did any of the GPs listen to our concerns. She moved to Belgium and within 8 weeks was diagnosed with a tumour on her pituitary gland and Crohn’s disease, had surgery, seen a dietician, new medications, is getting counselling to deal with how she was treated here, she’s like a different person now. The same NHS insisted my dads bowel cancer was just piles for a year.

This.
We are about to enter a reckoning for health, care and pensions as the over 65's and over 90s are our fastest-growing demographic. We will need to rethink the way we structure our entire taxation system to pay for it all. Despite being the 6th-largest economy in the world, the median average salary is only £25k.

Having said all of that, I am still pissed at Labour's PFI trick.

We can claim for GP appts, prescriptions, scans, surgery etc. We don't have private insurance, no. But we do have the means to cover any gaps, so for example we pay €25 for a GP appt, but we might only get back circa €20.

Thank you @Justthisonceharold if you need a scan do you go to the local hospital or is there a clinic which provides this service ?

Either, depending on the facilities at your local clinic/hospital

They have about three times the number of hospital beds in France, as we do in the UK, for a similar size population, which must help with providing a better service ?

There's Tory neglect and there's also the fact that, sadly, the NHS was not set up to cope with so many long-term unwell elderly people. The assumption was that we'd all live longer and be healthier, but what's actually happened is there are large numbers of frail, older people who need long-term care. I think a German-style 'those who afford pay up' type system might be the only way to deal with this.

Also, the link between health and social care is totally broken, especially impacting these older people and the chronically ill.

In Germany the top up TH is over 70k euros.

Biggest thing we could do to improve NHS is nationalise adult social care.

One of the tragedies of the NHS is in vascular, folk have poor circulation and need surgery, delays in treatment mean they walk in for surgery and come out without a leg.
I thought what my DD told me about Neuro was bad but know she is on acute, its even worse :(

Biggest cause for delay is lack of staff and little/no social care, so folk bed block.

There's Tory neglect and there's also the fact that, sadly, the NHS was not set up to cope with so many long-term unwell elderly people.

There used to about 50k long term elderly care beds or Geriatric beds as they used to be known in the NHS, most of these disappeared in the late 80's. So historically speaking the NHS was actually set up to cope with long term unwell elderly people.

The population and especially the elderly population has been increasing at a steady pace for at least the last 50 years. It isn't a situation that has suddenly occurred and that nobody could have predicted.

Ask any top management of any UK hospital if they think they could manage the bed situation better if they had one extra ward of elderly care beds and I imagine the answer would be a resounding 'yes' . That would still be less than elderly care provision back in the 80's.

@Alexandra2001 absolutely! Sort out the social care system and you've got so much more leeway in the nhs

And I suspect would cost significantly less than the much promised but not yet delivered 40 brand spankety new hospitals !

Thats the problem people are thick and stupid enough to think throw money at it and you will fix it .

whilst more money would be a help as an nation
14% smoke
we are one of the fattest nations in Europe

people need to make better choices with
Diet
smoking
drugs
alcohol
exercise
all of the above would make a massive reduction on the demand for health services

Waste and inefficient process in the NHS waste millions ask anyone who works for it.
NHS loose through fraud an estimated 5.7 billion a year yes 5.7 billion a year

Personally had to ring 111 for my parents spoke to triage rung back by nurse practitioner ,who said we needed to speak to a doctor ,doctor rung said we need a senior doctor ,senior doctor rung said he would send a doctor how many HCP dread to think how much that cost .
Youngest had a follow up letter with appt for consultant turned up consultants said he'd been discharged wasted appt
Dad died loads of NHS aids supplied by occupational health working frames ,bath step ,Toilet frame (still in wrapper cost NHS £48 never been near a toilet )
walking sticks told to bin wouldn't take them back.
Tried to cancel his prescriptions they kept sending them carrier bag of drugs all sealed boxes told to bin.

Our lifestyles/shit choices and NHS inefficiencies will be the downfall of the service not any government .

But us the great British public like nothing better than taking zero responibilty for our actions and take the easy option of point the finger elsewhere .

It's the minor stuff that gets left
Example, I have an abscess in my boob. Had antibiotics
It's gone down but hasn't gone. I'm putting off an appointment because
Trying to get one - it means taking time off work, and my work isn't flexible and neither is the doctors surgery
Worrying about treatment - I had an abscess under my arm and they wouldn't close it so I was left with a hole for 6 months (the abscess is right where my underwire goes and I can't face that)
I can't take time off work to keep ringing the doctors at 8am to be told the appointments have all gone

@MsOllie does your GP have an online system ? You could fill in an online form stating you have completed the antibiotics but still have an issue and they can either see you or prescribe another dose to get rid of the infection.

Nope
I have another course of antibiotics here but I can't face taking them as I still have raging thrush from the last course (same antibiotics, chemist accidentally gave me 2 courses)
It doesn't seem infected, it's just a lump now so I'm going to ignore it until my next annual leave in august and book then

Or try out of hours GP's over the weekend ?

If it gets worse get help, please don't wait until August, thrush or not !

I will, I just don't feel I can take time off work as I've had two lots of tonsillitis back to back and time off for my mums death all in 6 weeks
That plus 3 courses of antibiotics in a month.. my body hates me!

The NHS was set up to save lives but society’s ever changing idea of life saving has dramatically changed and it’s now expected to offer varying treatments because of say, the impact it might have on Mental Health. Our view on MH have drastically changed and people regularly pop into A&E because they are having a bad day. The sad fact is medical staff have been leaving in droves. It’s been awful working for the NHS there’s too many patients and not enough physical room
or staff to effectively manage. Very high expectations are placed on staff that are left and abuse has gone through the roof. Social care in the community has a massive impact but so does self care. We are terrible at self care. I can live how I want to cos it’s my body mentality means people expect a quick fix when something does go wrong, people actually come to A&E frequently for ‘just in case’ scenarios. It was quite quoted that there were approximately 45,000 GP’s for a population of 68 million. And we are actually wondering why they are being so difficult offering appointments.

@MsOllie that is a lot to deal with in such a short space of time, so sorry about your Mum

Our lifestyles/shit choices and NHS inefficiencies will be the downfall of the service not any government .

As far as the equipment is concerned in your post, guess what ? its a private business providing it and it cost's the NHS more to collect it than it does to right it off. Madness I know, but that is how privatisation works in this country.

Our lifestyles/shit choices and NHS inefficiencies will be the downfall of the service not any government

The other issue I have with this statement is, people who make poor lifestyle decisions/shit choices rarely end up being 'elderly' , older before their time almost certainly, but geriatric rarely. Those choices have a tendency of catching up with them healthwise before that point, regardless of any NHS input. The geriatric population ( the over 70's ) we have now have managed to bank a lot of active hours in their youth, most will have been a lot more active previously than current generations. I don't think it is fair to blame them for the effects of normal ageing processes, when we should be offering support instead to mitigate them.

Like some in this thread, I have worked in the NHS for many years, in corporate roles rather than clinical but always with the very clear understanding that our entire purpose is to enable clinicians to treat patients accurately, competently, and safely, while being recruited, paid, trained and safe (e.g. DBS checks) by us in the back office.

I've worked for organisations involved in commissioning, mental health, community provision, acute and the independent sector (thanks to privatisation by service).

I've worked in the NHS under Labour Governments and under Conservative Governments.

The two stand-out awful times of my experience were the first years of Cameron's austerity programme, when the NHS pretty much had the rug pulled out from underneath it, and the cultural war of being NHS staff working for an independent provider, we were treated so badly.

When the NHS is left to mobilise a response and get on with it, like the vaccine rollout, it's a huge success.

However, the NHS is always in the middle. Not enough GPs, patients can't get appointments, so A&E see massive increases in attendance. Social services are on their knees, so the NHS can't discharge some patients, and bed blocking has a massive onward impact to the whole service.

We are beset with our own problems, and carry the effects of problems created in other areas.

Inflation has been about 33% in that time period so that’s less in real terms??

Too many people not paying into it but using it heavily. It will collapse fully in the next 15-20 years.