My 4 year old - is this normal?

[Aliall]

Please don’t jump on me. I’m a first time parent so no idea what’s ‘normal’.

My just turned 4 year old DS has become interested in the periodic table. It started from reading a physics book for babies and toddlers that was bought as a gift (as a joke really) as his dad is a science lab technician and a science graduate.

He loved looking at the periodic table and talking about it with his dad.
Now he is always drawing his own periodic table. And says he drawing an ‘element’.

He can write and read already quite competently already and so is writing things like Helium and Hydrogen when doodling on paper at home.

I’m thinking he’s possibly got autism. I’m not sure. A few people have suggested that, as he’s been able to write his name since he was 2 and a half.
His speech and social skills are fine though, so I don’t know.
He is quite ‘sensory’ and gets obsessive about things (currently the periodic table) and his memory is amazing.
He’s started adding simple numbers together too.

I’m just thinking how it’ll look odd if he starts going on about elements and hydrogen etc at nursery!

It's normal for him, that's all that matters.

My DC was the same, excellent speech and grasp of linguistics, science obsessed and could tell you how a car engine worked - piece by piece, along with the periodic table, and probably about most of the universe, by age 4 and could read fluidly by age 5, and has maths down to 2 years above his level right now. He's also learning another language now at age 5. The youngest but always top of the class - But I was too.

I have ADHD and he's also being assessed soon because of his hyper focus but also being assessed to see if he is Hyperlexic. Which they suspect he is.

He's genuinely a little Einstein and a walking Encarta. Just give him the space to enjoy it. Dont push him (yet) and don't try and force other things on him. Just let him discover :)

Though at 4 OP he should be doing more than simple numbers. Basic math up to 10 is standard at age 3 in a lot of preschools now. So he'd actually be behind in the preschool/school my son is at.

Sounds just like something he's really in to and encouraged by his dads interest. Unless there's a lot missing then he sounds bright and inquisitive. It's common to have obsessions, especially for little boys on my experience. As a pp said many have knowledge of dinosaurs or space that exceeds ours. Periodic table is obviously a bit more niche but there's a reason for it, he's not just discovered it on his own. Dd could write her own name at 2. I thought nursery had taught her but turned out she'd just given it a go herself. She's a pretty average 9 year old now and likely dyslexic. So no bearing on literacy skills.

@MiniPiccolo What should they be doing/know in regards to Maths at age 4?

You're raising a child genius!
Not necessarily autism

He sounds autistic. I bought my son a periodic table and he memorised it. He was doing long division on the white board in school in year 1. He’s got predicted As for maths and further maths A levels and a further two As in other subjects. Just research autism and give him loads of encouragement and he’ll be fine!

A*s

I thought my child was a genius when she was 3 because she could do mental arithmetic quicker than me - adding up the prices of groceries as we went round the supermarket and always getting it right.

She's all grown up now and still good at maths, but she never attained genius level.

@hippoherostandinghere his speech is advanced for his age I’d say. His vocabulary is quite extensive.
He spoke quite early too.

@switswoo81 He taught himself through watching Alphablocks on CBeebies mainly and got quite obsessed with letters and making words. I thought hyperlexic for a while, but it’s so hard to say at this age.

He’a clearly advanced but not necessarily autistic. How is he socially? Is he good at having a conversation? One of the first things DDs nursery picked up on with her is that she tends to talk about her interests or have the conversation she wants, rather than answer the question you’ve asked.

Children with ASD have delays with speech, fine/gross motor skills etc etc

This isn’t necessarily true, and particularly in girls can lead to delayed diagnosis by people assuming a child can’t be autistic if they haven’t had any developmental delays. DD has not been delayed at all, met every milestone on time or early. However around age 3 there became obvious differences in social communication, and high anxiety around transition points.

My DS is similar, though his writing is pretty average and his social skills are behind. He was observed by the SEN lady at his school (in reception) because his teacher suspected autism. She disagreed and said he is just at the very bright end of normal and suffers from a bit of anxiety. I'd wouldnt worry about it for now to be honest, it's probably too early to tell anyway

@Namechanger965 What were the obvious differences in social communication if you don’t mind me asking?

My son was like this at 4. Still is now.
He has ADHD.

www.gov.uk: mathematics programme of study, year 4. Sorry, no clicky link.

My DS had a series of obsessions at that age and earlier: Thomas the Tank Engine obscure engines, flags, vulcanology, Harry Potter etc. Started singing on his 1st birthday and talking the day after (could speak in short sentences before he could walk), could read and count before reception and considered G&T. Predicted a 1st in his MEng in computer science next week. NT. Just go with the flow and encourage him, giving him lots of opportunities and experiences, but try not to get annoyed if you think that he’s wasting his gifts and talents. He’ll find his own thing whether NT or ASD.

He is a bright boy. Most 4 year olds can't read and write to that standard. Just because he is a bit different, doesn't mean there is something wrong with him. I would follow his interest and continue to challenge him.
I would try to find him a nursury that are willing to cater to his interests. You shouldn't feel like he will look strange going in talking about the periodic table. I would be more concerned that
he would go somewhere that bored him to tears!
I had some concerns about my DS when he was that age, because he was a bit different. I think I was always a bit worried that he would be different in whatever scenario we were in, and I probably was trying to make him conform to the group.
I cannot tell you how much I regret this. Now I can't tell you how much I admire his ability to just be himself!

@Andthelivingiseasy

She didn’t really play with other children but alongside them, when she should have been playing more cooperatively. She’s nearly 5 now and that has improved but she gets very absorbed into role play and spends most of her time being a character, rather than herself and will refer to her friends/siblings as other characters and will often ramble on as if she’s talking to characters, rather than us (one of her friends said to me the other day ‘DDs talking nonsense again 😂).

She has very one sided conversations, she doesn’t always engage in the conversation you’re having with her but responds instead with what she wants to discuss, usually her current interest.

She doesn’t always understand non-verbal communication (gestures), doesnt really like looking at you when in conversation, and often doesn’t use them either, she rarely points (which is a sign of lack of joint attention) and doesn’t really follow where your pointing, she just looks confused. It’s so frustrating when asking her to make a choice between things, she just says ‘that one’ and it’s a good few minutes of ‘which one?’ ‘that one’ ‘describe it’ ‘vague description which could be any of the options’.

She doesn’t always ‘hear’ when you’re speaking to her, she sort of acts like she’s listening and nods along but if you ask her what you’ve said or if she understands she has no clue and instead comes out with something completely unrelated that she was actually thinking about.

Her paediatrician also picked up on poor eye contact (although that’s not true of everyone with ASD) and ‘odd facial expressions’.

She also has huge meltdowns around transitions and high anxiety about leaving me or any new situation she encounters and can’t handle loud noises so wears ear defenders. But in most ways she’s very high functioning, never had any delays, toilet trained at 2, can write as expected and her reading and maths are both above expected. She has a brilliant imagination as well, and has lots of friends as they like playing her games.

Being able to spell hydrogen & helium at 4 is really advanced/outside of ‘normal’
I’d say, he sounds gifted and really bright, which can be the case with or without neurodiversity.

ASD there has to be social communication issues/differences present, it’s the main feature of it.
If he was struggling in areas like communication, friendships, changing settings, needing routines or having significant sensory issues, then a diagnosis would help him and others adjust.

If he’s not struggling (i.e can’t form friendships with his peers, having melt downs at home) then I would just keep an eye on him but enjoy how bright he sounds!

Either way, he sounds adorable, OP.

Age 4 not year 4! Please don't look at the year 4 programme of study and panic because your 4 year old can't round to the nearest 10 or count in multiples of 25 😂

Intelligence isnt about what they know rather than the questions they ask and how they use the knowledge

Put up a picture of him drawing a periodic table and writing hydrogen and helium. This I need to see!

This thread is madness. It is not normal for 3 year olds doing addition to 10 in nursery. That is firmly in the reception space. Children can get obsessions at that age- my 3yo had a thing about volcanos for example. I do think what you have described is well above the normal.

I suspect most children in year 1 (my daughter’s) year wouldn’t spell hydrogen correctly. Your son is clearly extremely bright and will be well ahead when he starts reception Even if there aren’t additional needs, you’ll need to make sure he is getting appropriate material at school.

My child could describe the inside workings of a steam engine at 4 and tell quite a few locos by their whistle. All his drawings were trains and he turned words into trains too. He's now 6, still very much into all that. Less the workings and more the years they were built etc. Its unfortunate that this sort of behaviour is assumed to be a problem or a sign of something negative.

The writing at such a young age is unusual but not massively so.

Sounds normal for a bright child. I was an early talker/early reader and was obsessed with Latin names for plants and animals from 3 becsuse of a set of Ladybird books I had that had them in. Fast forward 40 years and I'm an environmental scientist. I'm NT just very passionate about my subject which I was lucky enough to discover at a super young age. Both my kids are the same - early talkers/readers and very passionate about certain topics (not biology unfortunately) but both NT. They both appeared exceptional when at primary school but as teens the gap has closed a bit with their peers and they are just seen as bright.

Ah, the usual “seems intelligent - must be autism” leap.
My cousin has 5 children, 4 with ASD diagnoses. They’ve got about 5 GCSEs to rub between them. And not because they’re particularly disadvantaged by the exam system or didn’t have EHCPs.
But because being academically advanced actually isn’t a guaranteed side effect of autism.