To Understand the Resentment Some Feel Towards Refugees ?

[wantaholiday]

I've name changed for this because I'm a regular poster and don't really want it known I've taken in a Ukrainian family.

We are a family with teenager school children and a Ukrainian mum and her six year old child are living in our house with us as in our spare bedroom as part of our family. We are very, very lucky because the family are lovely and a joy to have. It was a big gamble taking them as we didn't know them and just because you're escaping a war doesn't make you a nice, easy to live with person. Likewise for them, offering space doesn't mean we'll be easy.

They have been given a lot of help (this is great) such as, our oversubscribed and full village primary school made extra space to take child in. People in the village have been very welcoming, they've received loads of donated toys and clothes (that they needed). They've also gone out of their way to invite mum and kid to things and offer lifts (also needed) to the mum. Even the dentist, you can't get an NHS dentist for 50 miles in any direction from where I live, this was even on the news a while ago, my dentist has made an exception for them and taken them on as NHS patients.

All this is great, and I'm very happy about all of it and shows what a great place the world is. My issue is how we treat our own poor. So many people in the UK live in real long term grinding poverty with no end or hope in sight, they and their kids get none of this special treatment and are even blamed for their own circumstances. I can understand if they might feel resentful towards my guests. For what it's worth I think they're completely blaming the wrong people, it's not the fault of refugees that poor people in the UK live in such dire conditions, it's the fault of government. Absolutely no sympathy understanding or excuses given to people living comfortably lives who also resent refugees though.

I've turned off voting because I don't want any vote to be read as if we are right to be resentful of refugees .

I think what you’re not appreciating is that they are getting this support because they are Ukrainian. Refugees from other countries do not get this much level of support from the government and the community. There is a massive difference in the response towards Ukraine when compared to other refugees.

The government can help. It’s just very selective about who to help. That’s what the bigger problem is.

YABU to ‘understand’ the ‘resentment’ towards refugees for this. The anger should be directed at the system that denies these services to everyone who needs it, and those who prop it up. Never understand why so many people continuously fall for their lies.

The best way to tackle it is to look at the whole community, rather than just the refugees within it. Projects and infrastructure that support refugees and the host community go down much better locally. Also, dialogue projects can help to build relationships between refugees and others in the community, which breaks down fear/prejudice etc.

Agree with this too.

it seems a lot of the community type places have been defunded. Libraries and Sure start children’s centres etc. These places were great for communities coming together. I know some churches/temples/ mosques open their doors to the community but more of these opportunities would be great.

I think for every story like this about Ukrainian refugees there is another story about ones treated awfully. It’s incredibly patchy between councils and areas.
In my area to a council has been obstructive at points, over things like school places or processing payments (schools and hosts are yet to receive money). There are no particular schemes, and they are actually blocked from some as they aren’t actually refugees and have no rights as such (eg childcare support access here, English classes…). It’s a liberal area and generally welcoming to refugees and diverse, but there’s been a pretty big back lash sliver perceived special treatment. And stories about racist Ukrainians. Organised protest letters over things to do with special treatment (free schools meals, uniform), but actually things that already exist for all refugees. A lot of ‘oh they love them because they are blond and blue eyed’ that has gone quite far into hate talk about Ukrainians (they deserve it… Putin should finish the job…). Dh is Ukrainian and I am half, and we’ve had friends treat us like we’ve morphed into horrible racist chancers in a few cases, I’ve had a few direct hurtful messages. Others have simply shared a lot of false narratives that are hurtful, such as how they are part of Russia/ they are really the aggressors/ deserve it/ racists deserve no sympathy and so on.
Dh and I have actually worked with refugee family for many years, but it’s been totally forgotten.
I think if you are in a white majority area there are some amazing grass roots activities and a lot of support, but go into an inner city and you wouldn’t recognise how it is different.

A racists go to is always whataboutery, and wait for the, what about our homeless etc. When you know full well they look down their nose at people with issues and wouldn't give the steam off their piss.

The vast majority of refugees are not treated in the same way that some Ukrainian refugees are. For starters, most of them have to fight - and fight hard - to be classed as refugees rather than asylum seekers. And very, very few are welcomed by the majority of people despite getting none of this preferential treatment. Whilst I can't begrudge Ukrainians the opportunities being offered to them, it's also a tad patronising and condescending that, as a society, we have decided to be nice to the poor refugees (provided they are the sort we like). I know that individually lots and lots of people have given generously in so many ways, but I do wonder how much of that is about "us" and not "them". Would / are people so generous to other refugees? We already know the answer to that.

I think there are good reasons why people are more willing to help Ukrainians. The vast majority are women and children. I think far fewer people would take in a single male.

Many homeless people in our own country have complex problems like addiction or mental health issues which makes it harder to help them. Ukrainians have a right to work here, so with a bit of help they should be able to make successful lives and contribute to our economy. Unfortunately most refugees are not allowed to work so they are seen as "spongers".

Where I live there are lots of volunteer efforts to help poor British families, like food banks and play schemes.

I think it's poor form to criticise people for helping Ukrainians but not other refugees - it's a bit like criticising someone who donates to cancer research because they don't support the British heart Foundation. I wonder if those criticising ever did anything themselves to help Syrians or poor British people?

I agree it's an interesting question.

On a purely pragmatic level, the causes of poverty (other than the cost of living crisis) are often complex - it can be a cycle that's really hard to break and tie into culture, expectations, education and other issues such as abuse and it's sometimes a really difficult thing to address in the long term.

In reality it's probably pretty easy to help a lot of the refugees and make economic sense - a lot of refugees are educated and were working in skilled professions and if the government invest a relatively small initial amount of money to help them transition to life in the uk, they will likely end up being net contributers. And comparitevly there arent that many of them. Breaking the cycle of poverty already in the uk is a lot more complex and expensive in comparison and I'm not sure many people have the answers

Also morally I'm never really sure about the 'charity begins at home' argument. Why? It's completely random where a child is born and to me, we should help those first who need it most.

I’m pro helping Ukrainian refugees and have made friends with a lovely Ukrainian couple (also refugees) but I’m sorry, that pisses me off about the fact they can get an NHS dentist just like that.

I can’t get one and many other tax-payers I know also can’t get one, and are just having to go without as they can’t really afford treatment.

Surely people who’ve been here for years- should be priority?

Understanding resentment doesn’t mean you agree with it. Just that you see why people think the way they do.
And while it’s easy to say ‘direct the anger towards the government’ from a warm, comfortable home. Think of the people in dire straits, seeing lol others getting more help than them. Of course they’re Going to feel resentful.

this doesn’t refer to the well heeled btw

Ukraine has been a peaceful country until recently and everyone can see an understand what is happening and there is a clear "bad guy" in the situation which is Russia,

For the Middle-East there have been wars there for as long as anyone can remember, and there is no prospect of that changing, and no clear good guys and bad guys, it's just chaos. I can understand people being less than keen to house refugees from that situation.

I think there are good reasons why people are more willing to help Ukrainians. The vast majority are women and children. I think far fewer people would take in a single male.

But in many war torn/unstable countries, we directly contributed to it. And there were literally children on some of those migrant boats, and (I hope a very small minority) people were glad they drowned... nobody is brave enough to say it in public, but Twitter comments on news articles can be a cesspit. Even if it was a boat full of children, the hardline racists are type to still turn them all back.

Nobody is obliged to take anyone, it's not about 'not taking people in' to your actual house. That would be fair enough.

A friend of mine who lives in catchment for their school didn’t get a place. She was number 1 on the waiting list and is now number 7 as there are 6 Ukrainians waiting.

Yes. Sadly.

So you can be in must as much danger when you haven't done anything to contribute to it, but are less deserving of safety?

A friend of mine who lives in catchment for their school didn’t get a place. She was number 1 on the waiting list and is now number 7 as there are 6 Ukrainians waiting.

I would be livid. This is why people are resentful

I noticed something curious - on the local NextDoor app there was an Eastern European woman posting cleaning/ironing services. I felt sorry for her as for months she posted to every request for a cleaner and everyone either ignored her or said they were only looking for neighbours to refer their own cleaners. The only time she was ever really engaged is when people shamed her about her English or that NextDoor was not for soliciting work. Strangely, when an English sounding name replied to a request for a cleaner, they would be asked for their hourly rates and availability etc.

Then recently a woman from Ukraine posted she was looking for work and and suddenly within an hour she had 60+ replies from neighbours welcoming her to the neighbourhood and offering her cleaning jobs.

(For all we know she might have been a lawyer as she didn't even mention she was a cleaner!)

I always wondered how that other lady felt seeing that.

And while it’s easy to say ‘direct the anger towards the government’ from a warm, comfortable home. Think of the people in dire straits, seeing lol others getting more help than them. Of course they’re Going to feel resentful

This^.

I work in pensions. We have pension and pension credit claimes backlog, some pensioners have absolutely nothing and are waiting 4+ months just to hear back from us. If they phone to chase we say we'll call back in 5 working days, if we don't call back in that timeframe then we just say the same again and you keep having to hope we contact you. Ukrainian refugee claimes are fast tracked and wait only 48 hours for call backs. Any fail to calls backs get escalated to urgent.

It's not the fault of Ukrainians but you can see how the resentment builds. Perhaps the government has designed it this way to cause resentment?

Maybe they need it more?

Sorry your friend struggles to understand why they may be in a better position to support their children in a school that isn't their first choice

No I don’t think it is reasonable to begrudge someone in genuine need of charity being given just that.

I totally see your point, and can see how resentment occurs.
But I blame the government 100%.

I'm officially classed as living in poverty. Always robbing Peter to pay Paul as it were.

But I have nothing but sympathy for refugees. They might have more disposable income than me/less bills/ more access to help.
But I don't have to worry about if I'll ever be able to go 'home'. I still live in the town I grew up in. I don't have to worry about friends and family who haven't managed to get out. I haven't lost my home, my livelihood, my possessions. I don't have to start again in a country where i don't speak the language.

In short, I'm much better off omin every way other than financial. I wouldn't swap.

I don't know whether that's true. I read an article today about more and more people in the Middle-East not believing in democracy. You cannot have a peaceful, prosperous country without democracy. Most of the problems in the Middle-East are caused by the people there preferring to support strongmen leaders and religious zealots.

Countries become peaceful, places to live because the people of that country work hard to make them peaceful, pleasant places to live. It doesn't just happen at random, people have to want it and be prepared to put in the work and make the sacrifices to make it so.

So for people who cant get a dentist or who have friends who cant get a school place for their child - what have they or their friends been doing politically, voting wise to ensure that the right people are voted in who will ensure that the services are in place that their local area needs? What campaigning do they do, what complaints have they made or are they only riled into action if someone from a war torn country comes along and gets a service for something?

The general public have voted to run down, not invest and not future proof our public services and then wonder why they're not fit for purpose.

Are you actually serious? Clearly you know nothing about the Middle East, but it is the actions of the US and the UK over the past 40 or so years that has directly caused the unrest in the Middle East.

I know you think anyone who has heritage from elsewhere should be deported when they commit a crime, but please try and open your mind a bit rather than blindly following the Daily Mail.

And your comments re democracy…democracy in the western world was developed over hundreds of years. Democracy in the Middle East was imposed over a couple of years. Imposed on countries after war which resulted in the deaths of thousands and which are still suffering from numerous issues. It doesn’t take a genius to realise that democracy is viewed differently in different circumstances.

While I agree with you in many ways, I think part of this problem is that many people in the UK perceive the refugees as being in this situation through no fault of their own, whereas they see the poor here as somewhat responsible for their situation. If only they had paid attention at school, if only they'd get a job, if only they managed their money better, if only they had fewer children and so on.
It's the new version of the deserving and undeserving poor