To be totally on the anti UPF bandwagon and think this may finally be how I crack my food addiction?

[MaybeIWillFuckOffThen]

Listened to the podcast by the Van Tulleken brothers, and then read some of the Brazilian research and the experiment with UPF/whole food diet. Listened to some Giles Yeo. Oh my goodness. Mind blown!

I have a binge eating disorder and it was getting so out of hand. Spent fortunes a week on extra secret food, all of it crap. Gaining a lot of weight. I could eat 6 supermarket hot cross buns at a time and still feel like I wanted more even while feeling sick. Whole packets of biscuits in minutes. It didn't make any sense to me but I felt like I just couldn't stop. Now it makes a lot of sense why - I've basically been eating the food equivalent of heroin.

I've cut it out this past week or two - whenever I have been craving it I just go and listen to an episode or two of the podcast again and am horrified anew so resist. I've also accepted the fact I'm never going to manage to not eat with willpower alone so have packed my bag with healthy whole food snacks - nuts, Greek yoghurt, chopped vegetables, hummus - so I don't 'need' to go to the shop for some lunch (and walk out with a load of garbage).

I felt much better almost instantly. Clear headed. Less bloated and sluggish, less achey. Less sick obviously. And much, much less hungry. Staying within calorie limits (that always seemed laughably low and restrictive whilst eating junk) suddenly incredibly easy. In not weighing myself as my scales are broken but how I feel is worth it on its own.

Over the weekend my DD got a vomiting bug for the millionth time this summer, bad nights sleep, feeling grotty etc. So Monday I decided to treat myself t a toasted panini from the work cafe. Supermarket bread, weird cheese etc - real comforting junk food of the type I just can't get enough of usually.

Reader it was DIABOLICAL. It tasted AWFUL. I've eaten these things so many times before and loved them. But it was horrible. I literally could not eat it, had two mouthfuls, spat the second one out and threw it in the bin.

I honestly feel like I've had some sort of damascene conversion. Every time I think about buying some crap now I just remember the horrible, inedible crapness of that panini and the urge just goes away again.

AIBU to think this could actually change my life??? Can simple awareness really override such a lifelong, established addictive behaviour? Or will this just be a flash in the pan?

I work on the principle that if it has ingredients in that I wouldn't go to a supermarket to buy then it's UPF. Oats? Fine, I'd go to Tesco and buy a bag of oats. But I wouldn't go and buy a bag of E403 or a packet of stabilising agent.

And @MiniPiccolo , please do fuck off with your sanctimony.

Can I join in the chorus of 'fuck off's with a couple of middle fingers.

The most eye-opening comment I've ever read, and I wish I could remember where I read it, was on the lines of 'supermarkets are full of products that are sold as food but are not really food at all'. Think, for example, a sponge cake. I've just randomly looked at one online and the following ingredients are listed:
vegetable glycerol,
disodium diphosphate, potassium hydrogen carbonate
potassium sorbate
trisodium citrate

I haven't a clue what these are although the blurb tells you what they do (raising agents, preservatives etc). If you make a Victoria sponge cake with unimproved flour, it has baking powder (yes I know, but still), eggs, sugar and butter in, plus jam which is fruit and sugar. We pay a price for buying convenience food from supermarkets.

Bloody hell! Given all the anger directed at @MiniPiccolo i looked forward to find her post and being aghast at the rudeness of it

but she basically speaks the truth!

Bracing myself for the chorus of fuck offs! 😂

@Bertieboo82 It's not just this post, she's a frequent flier on posts where the OP expresses some sort of problem or vulnerability and she loves to pop up and give them a kicking, sneer and in some way imply they are a weak and shitty person.

See the thread by the poster who was miserable with her debilitatingly large breasts, and expressed in her OP she was considering self-harm because she could get no help on the NHS in her area due to CCG rules. Up pops Piccolo telling her OP that it's actually perfectly possible to get the help she has been categorically told she cannot get, and that OP simply 'can't be arsed for the fight'. And plenty of other threads.

I say in my OP I have a longstanding binge-eating disorder. It's not like I didn't KNOW I was eating badly, didn't KNOW the food I was eating was bad food, and didn't KNOW I'd feel better if I stopped doing it. I have a disorder, not a brain bypass. What I am remarking on is that, for the first time, an understanding of the science behind why I have NONETHELESS continued to eat the shit I know is bad for me, in volumes that make me feel sick, has enabled me to gain some control over this lifelong habit. So her 'well durrr' vcomment was not relevant, was not useful, and did nothing except give her a little thrill of being able to kick at someone with an illness.

Some posters are just nasty and mean and bring nothing to any discussion. I don't want her here. Obvs it's a public forum and I can't stop her, but I can at least make it plain.

If you make a Victoria sponge cake with unimproved flour, it has baking powder (yes I know, but still), eggs, sugar and butter in, plus jam which is fruit and sugar. We pay a price for buying convenience food from supermarkets.

I cannot find it for the life of me but I've seen another MNer reference it on a similarly-themed thread so I know it definitely exists, but there was an episode of the Food Programme that gave the example of a Bakewell tart (or a cherry Bakewell, but lets go with the tart as an example).

If I was making that there'd be flour, butter and water in the pastry, maybe eggs or sugar depending on what type I was making. The frangipane would be butter, sugar, ground almonds and eggs. The jam would be fruit and sugar (and more of the former than the latter).

But when it's made by a big food manufacturer, there isn't any butter or eggs, or fruit or almonds. Instead there's alternatives, flavourings, emulsifiers, stabilisers and other various things designed and tested in labs to smell, taste and feel the same in our mouths. It's cheaper, it has a longer shelf life and so on, but there's very few ingredients that any of us would actually recognise. And yet it looks the same.

And the companies who make this crap get all sanctimonious and say "Well, it's to make it affordable" which really boils my blood because it's effectively saying that people who are poorer should have to put up with, and be grateful for bad food that may well be doing them harm.

It's the same with convenience food or the current fad for 'plant based' food - people who don't have time or money or cooking skills or who are simply trying to do the right thing are being tricked into eating ultra-processed rubbish.

In that case I apologise

@MiniPiccolo what on earth is your issue with the Op specifically?

Hi OP, so glad you started this thread! I'm a life-long binge-eater who has been trying to be low carb/ paleo ish for the past month and feeling (for once) confident that I can do/be/live better. (I'm aiming for 80:20 for the rest of my life!)

Didn't know what UPF was when I clicked your thread :) but it really resonates! I've been eating from scratch, lots of veg, some fruit, goats cheese, meat, fish, olive oil, bit of butter now and then...

The biggest thing is that once you switch off the blood sugar spikes and crashes by cutting out the sugary crap, the binge eating takes care of itself! If I'm craving something after the kids are asleep, I have a few tsps of whole peanut butter and a square of 100% chocolate and I'm satisfied (like a PP, I realise this makes me sound like a wanker! :) Sorry!) Before it would have been a 2nd helping of dinner or some multi-pack of something...

Part of what clicked for me was taking an online course with this lady, Elle at www.eatforhealthuk.com - she actually advocates clean plant-based as the 'optimal' way of eating, which I'm not doing right now as have a lot of weight to lose... But she told this story about Nestle's food R&D department, which flicked a switch in my brain:

Nestle R&D has existed for 50 years (i.e. since early 80s) and in that time has spent, annually, the GDP of a small country. This insane money has been invested in finding the exact combination of ingredients, additives, and lab-created "edible substances" that can over-ride every biological function which signals satiety. Literally: once you start you can't stop.

And where Nestle lead, the rest have followed...

This money could have eradicated poverty. Instead they created hyper-addictive food-adjacent-substances that contribute to millions of avoidable deaths each year.

It's got nothing to do with an individual's willpower, and actually not much to do with disordered eating - it's just global capitalism at it's most toxic.

Getting rid of processed shit is not just a great thing to do as an individual - it's also a brilliant thing to do for the human race! So go you, OP. And best of luck xx

I’m glad to have found this thread and all the links. I’ve just started a 28-day programme aimed at supporting the body’s natural detox processes and as part of that the focus is on whole real food (plus things like eliminating dairy and gluten and sugar for the month).

one of the things I’m finding incredibly helpful is learning about my body; having a better understanding of what eg my kidneys do and all the biological processes that can be impacted by problematic substances in foods etc is making things click for me much more than just telling myself not to eat crap. I’m sure the recommended podcasts will also help so I really appreciate the suggestions.

it feels really empowering to make decisions about what I put in my body in order to optimize my body, rather than eating things for the momentary enjoyment while it’s in my mouth. And for me,
learrning more is making a huge difference.

@Steelandsparkles great post...feeling empowered over food choices is something I'd like to achieve too!

Anyone else find that eating certain processed foods causes havoc with their tummy? I've become addicted to sourdough...particularly from Lidl bakery...but I'm trying to stop having it everyday because it doesn't come sliced and when I cut it, I'm having 100g slabs at a time, often x 2!

So I switched to wholemeal thins, thinking they would be better for me but OMG! My tummy is feeling bloody awful...feeling bunged up, right under my boots and have excess wind! I bought my last packet from lidl and the list of ingredients is off the scale!! I think I'm going to have to give up eating bread! 😕

Preach. A lot of people are fat and unhealthy because they have no control but it's easier to blame the manufacturers. I have biscuits every single day because I like them and they taste good but I know when to put the lid back on the cookie jar.

@Carpy88999 you might want to look into Giles Yeo's research into the genetic and epigenetic factors at play there.

Except you don't need to. Because you (by your own report) do not have a problem with controlling your eating. Which rather begs the question what you hope to get out of participating in the thread.

This is really interesting OP. I've just been diagnosed with gallstones and I really need to change my lifestyle and lose weight. I need to find a book though rather than a podcast as my family never keep quiet long enough for me to listen to anything

@SunflowerGardens I got a Bluetooth speaker for the shower because that is literally the ONLY peace and quiet I ever get 😆

@SunflowerGardens

Tim Spector 'spoon fed' or 'the diet myth the real science about what we are fed' or 'food for life the new science of eating well' which are available as 'real' books and on kindle is a good place to start

Really appreciate you explaining. Thank you

I'm a type 1 diabetic and one thing I have noticed is that eating from scratch and not consuming UPF foods (or very, very few) means that my blood sugar holds very steady and I need far, far less insulin.

That is hugely interesting to me and one more reason for thinking that I will stick to this way of eating from now on. My lovely DIL came over today and we cleaned out my kitchen cupboards and put back the things I'm happy to use from now on. The rest (if in date) has gone to the food bank. I had no idea I had no many tins of soup. Why? It is ridiculously easy to make soup! I am so cross with myself. All these years eating crap for no reason other than I thought it was easier.

I know full well genetics play a part, some people chose the wrong parents... But it's an excuse all the same. There will be plenty of athletes with a predisposition to carrying and gaining fat quicker than the average but due to lifestyle and discipline they aren't obese. Anyone can do it some choose not to. The end.

I recently posted about my weight loss in another context and although I haven't heard of UPF I think I get it from context and I couldn't agree more. I felt like I was withdrawing when I gave up junk food.

It was worse than giving up smoking. Slightly worse psychology and much worse physically. It only lasted a day or two but I felt physically drained and the mind fog was horrible.

My migraines were getting to the point were they were debilitating in their severity, length and frequency. I made a lot of changes prior to switching to whole foods (less sugar, better sleeping, excercise) and saw a definite reduction in them but given up processed food was when they dropped off a cliff. To the point were I had forgot how bad they were.

I'm currently gluten and dairy free, in an attempt to get to the bottom of some digestive issues. A side-effect of that is that I'm eating far less processed crap, because most of the unhealthier foods I'd normally be eating have gluten, dairy or both in them. Aside from soya milk, I haven't replaced them with 'free-from' stuff, because it's mostly not very nice (and very processed) so I'm basically avoiding pastry, chocolate, biscuits, cake, bread etc. I feel so much better for it - not just digestion-wise but also in terms of clear-headedness and energy. I'm also losing weight.

Preach. A lot of people are fat and unhealthy because they have no control but it's easier to blame the manufacturers. I have biscuits every single day because I like them and they taste good but I know when to put the lid back on the cookie jar.

What an unhelpful comment. Sneering at people who have 'no control' doesn't help anyone, does it? If it were as simple as just deciding to 'be more controlled', then nobody would be overweight. People make poor food choices for all sorts of reasons. Denying that the food environment which surrounds us (and which is so different from the one our ancestors, even just our grandparents, experienced) has a massive effect is ignorant and naïve.

This resonates with me. I could eat EPF all day everyday. I feel no fullness

Thank you for the thread OP! Im
going to be asking my OH today if he’ll help me box up everything UPF in the cupboards and stash it away. He’s got zero health or weight problems- that’s just me- but he’s a treasure so I think he’ll go along with it. And then giving homemade bread a go! Thank you to the PP for their recipe.

When I was a SAHM (many years ago) I remember I used to make my own pastry and bake pies (last dinner of the week was always left-over pie - oddly, it was my son's favourite dinner). I stopped doing that when I started work and have been buying convenience food and for years I've thought pies aren't what they were.

Now, having just baked a pie, I realise that no - bought pies aren't a patch on home-made. Dinner is going to be totally yummy.

I'm so grateful to @MaybeIWillFuckOffThen for this thread - I wouldn't have thought of going back to how I used to cook, but it turns out that the food tastes loads better, it's good for us and it's fun. Total win.

Try overnight oats!
I always have 30g jumbo oats, 10g raisins & cinnamon.
I measure it into pots in advance so always there to add the water to before I go to bed - if I do forget, boiling water in the morning for 15 minutes has the same effect.