To think MIL is wrong to lie about this to her 12yo?

[TournamentIgloo]

12yo SIL due to go to camp on Wednesday for a week. Camp is 'optional' if you dig deep but massively encouraged by MIL. Very, very strongly encouraged. She has been going to camp for 4+ years and every year has homesickness problems, last year bad enough camp wouldn't work through it with her (plus 11yo at the time SIL was completely distraught and unwilling) and she was sent home.

Camp was strongly encouraged again this year, discussions were had about how this time it would be better (because of various reasons, some likely very true!) and SIL agreed to try again. She is excited to go and is looking forward to this year.

MIL and her DH have booked an abroad holiday while SIL is at camp and have not told her they are going, and are going to quite extreme lengths to maintain the lie (eg. telling SIL she wont be able to send her photos of home because 'camp have asked parents to NOT communicate with campers about home, to avoid homesickness'). SIL is under the impression they will be 2.5 hours away in a car, not 12 hours and various transport methods (flights, taxi's, possible hire cars) away - that would be a very best case scenario, an unplanned trip home could easily take them 24 hours.

They have not asked anyone in the family to be available in an emergency so I expect they are banking everything on it going well and assuming if it goes wrong, it'll go SO wrong that someone will jump to help anyway.

I think using the time for a holiday is a great idea but that lying to SIL about it is utterly abhorrent, I think it's a fundamental and pretty intentional breaking of trust with a child still young enough for it to have a pretty big impact. Especially if she finds out while already very distressed that her parents are actually not even in the country. OH agrees - though put up with similar forced excursions in his childhood so is less incensed than I am.

I am completely unaware if the camp know they are going abroad - though they will have OH's info somewhere as an emergency contact.

We are pretty sure MIL IBU but I was a massively sensitive child with regular homesickness and various trauma issues and I have lost my objectivity. Is this less of a big deal than I think it is?

(OH and I are adults and OH will of course go and collect her if the need arises - though isn't thrilled nobody actually asked him.)

Was SIL a bit of an afterthought?

This is why I'm so upset, I feel massively triggered by my own experiences and I don't think I would have forgiven my Mother for leaving the country without telling me, knowing about my homesickness!

I meant an afterthought for MIL not you.

Hang on - you’re complaining about her parent going away whilst she’s at camp and at the same time you AND HER BROTHER are getting married and she’s not invited???? TBH, that’s far far worse!
As far as the camp / holiday issue is concerned, I can see that maybe her dm hasn’t told her about her own holiday because she knows that would stop her wanting to go to camp - which you’ve said she’s looking forward to. I completely understand that and don’t see it as a lie as such. Yes, your MIL should have arranged proper emergency childcare should there be an issue, and maybe your dp can make sure his dm puts him down as a contact.
But I can’t get over you not taking her to your wedding. That’s just awful. Poor kid.

Just to add...what have they told the camp? As an ex camp worker the amount of times we had to phone parents and they'd gone 'on holiday' but not given us a contact number that worked...really stressful for both child and the worker, sitting in a hospital after an accident and no way of getting hold of the poor child's parents..really selfish behaviour.

I am autistic, reclusive and disabled. I can barely stomach the thought of my Mother and MIL seeing me get married. There is no party, no ceremony, no honeymoon. The ONLY reason it is a trip is I need to get married where I was born so my disabled Mother can attend as the 2nd witness. I am also more comfortable getting married with a registrar I have known since a child given my own situation.

Fuck you, I have done literally nothing here.

@Rubytinsleslippers don't know, OH is going to make sure this week that camp have his full details etc to double check. I suspect camp probably have been told? The lie is not unlike MIL but not telling the camp would be out of the realm of her normal stuff.

@Grannyoftheyear also I think you'll find I did state SIL WOULD have been welcome but we cannot afford to fly her over and her Mother isn't inclined to. Plus she would miss school which would be very hard to justify for a bloody elopement (nearly) in a different continent. She's not bothered about that, but is likely to be more upset about this lie given the proximity of another period of time her Mum is away somewhere.

That poor girl! She is bound to find out that her parents forced her to go on camp so that they could go away and have a nice time without her. I also agree that it’s abhorrent to lie to children about things like this. She does seem like an afterthought to her parents whose other child (your fiancée) is grown.

Also I do know I have used MIL and SIL when we are not yet married, we have been together for 10 years and it's much much less time consuming, before I get picked apart for that too!

It’s definitely not the same thing leaving her with her dad so MIL can witness your marriage, op. You’re getting a hard time over that for no reason.

Parents leaving the country without telling 12 year old SIL.

V.

Her mother attending the Op's wedding with full knowledge of all parties.

Absolutely not the same and ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

Terrible parenting.

Tbh. I think givenshe wants to go to camp this year, not telling her they're going away isn't the worst thing in the world.

I wouldn't go away myself & many schools have rules about one parent being 'local' but the lying wouldn't be my problem with this.

if they (MIL& her DH) wanted to go to this resort would you & your DH (or anyone else) been able/willing to have SIL for a week?

For a whole week in summer? Probably not - our set up literally wouldn't allow it (in the event of her needing to come home next week, OH will stay with her at his Mum's house until they get back).

Two local uncles, a full week in summer would have been a huge ask for both of them work wise.

Within school time probably yes.

The holiday was only planned because of the opportunity camp presented, not a long lusted after trip. I think after covid and given the camp situation, if SIL had agreed to it and known about it (along with another adult knowing they were the contact for camp and agreeing to be), it would have been a fab idea and a great use of time!

It's her not knowing that feels like a huge huge line to cross.

Probably very worth noting, SIL would not want to stay for a whole week with OH or Uncles, she would get homesick.

Wow!
I don't suppose it is any of your business @TournamentIgloo and it certainly isn't any of mine - but I am going to ask anyway:

Has your MiL and/or her husband ever explained why they had a child together, because it certainly doesn't sound like they want one now?

I am on my second marriage and have (now adult) children from my first, and my (then) new husband and I tried for a baby together (he doesn't have any other children), but sadly it didn't happen for us. What I am trying to point out is that I think I am reasonably 'au fait' with many of the reasons either person in a new marriage may try for another child, but surely the main and most important reason should be because they actually want another child?

In my scenario, at least one half of the couple already has children, and so at least that one should have a good idea of what being a parent means, and hopefully the other partner has been in the relationship long enough to have a good idea about the pros and cons of living full-time - or at least a lot of the time ‐ with children.

Falling back on my own experience again, I did go on a honeymoon with my new husband while their Dad had the children (it was in the UK and not the sort of holiday my children would have enjoyed), but they also went away with their Dad and his new wife, and when they came along their (half) siblings (and they had foreign holidays with them that we couldn't afford), but apart from our non child friendly holidays that we went on when we didn't have the children, we always took them away as well on either camping or caravaning holidays.

What I am rather clumsily trying to say is that imo your MiL and her husband should not even be contemplating foreign holidays by the sea, when it is the sort of holiday their child would love. I just could not have, and would not have wanted to, have an exciting holiday without sharing it with my children.
In 5.5 years your SiL will be 18, as they decided to have her they should - again imo - wait until then before going on holidays that very obviously point out to your SiL that they will be enjoying it so much more without your SiL being there.

Sorry OP, back to your original question, no they should not be going abroad on holiday under any circumstances. If I was your MiL and I wanted to have a change of scenery, I would be holidaying closer to where my daughter was on her break with the school, and I would make sure that where I was staying could accommodate her if necessary, and I would have told her that. Your MiL is so out of line that I feel very sorry for your poor SiL.

I would just like to say @TournamentIgloo that this thread was still on page one when I started writing my post above, so I hadn't seen any of your further updates, so I hope nothing I have said has upset you, it certainly wasn't meant to - it is your MiL who I am furious with!

As for your Wedding in September, I think your reasons are very understandable and I am sure that your SiL will understand to. The only thing I disagree with you about it (and again it is none of my business), is that I don't think you should be paying for your MiL's flight and accommodation. It would be different if it was your choice to have a big flashy wedding overseas, but that is not what is happening here!

They are appalling parents, and you should tell them this.

Mil is being v U. Her dd will lose all trust in her if she finds out about the holiday. I wouldn't be able to relax if I were MIL.

Confirmed today that camp do know they will be abroad and have been given OHs details (though OH still wasn't asked).

@TheLadyofShalott1 you ask relevant questions but I'm not going to go into that here, it's not how I would parent or bring a child into the world - but she IS loved and she is wanted and despite many negative things I could say (including this, which I am horrified by) I could also say lots of good things.

People exist in shades of grey I guess, glad to know the overwhelming response is that this is NOT ok though and I wasn't projecting my own issues onto incomparable scenarios.

@ChagSameachDoreen We won't be saying anything to them unless they ask (there is a chance they will ask OH) - however in the event SIL needs picked up, or if/when she finds out, we certainly wont censor our feelings to defend MIL.

We are very very aware SIL is very much still a young child whether MIL and her Dad want to acknowledge this or not. We have been very supportive and have been acting as support since we were barely more than children ourselves (oh the stories from our late teens!) - she does have people on her side and is, somehow, thankfully, fairly well adjusted and secure despite being as someone fairly aptly described, 'a bit of an afterthought'. If anything, she is very very spoiled in many many ways and we are absolutely NOT welcome to step in, in ANY way, so her life is just not something we can shoehorn a change into.

Confirmed today that camp do know they will be abroad and have been given OHs details (though OH still wasn't asked).

oh I’d tell MIL about the week away you’re planning (camp week) and watch her squirm.

Poor child. No wonder she gets so homesick, sounds like she has attachment difficulties and for good reason. What on earth were they thinking? This is likely to be very damaging to her in many ways and will probably affect her trusting other people for a long time.

Who cares? She can get married where she wants and invite anyone she wants. She's not responsible for someone else's child. You are being unfair.

I'd figure out a way to not have MIL at the wedding to be honest.

It seems to me it would be much kinder to tell her.
”Mum and Dad will be going away too. This is your chance to be a really big girl and don’t worry, big brother and SiL will be right here if you truly need someone. We’re all going to have such fun, aren’t we?” Or whatever.
To lie to a girl at that tender age is an awful thing to do. Poor little thing.