Pride doesn’t represent me

[Vegansausageroll]

Just been watching Joe Lycett’s big pride party.
It was all sexualised smut. It’s ‘furries’ , kink, drag, sex and innuendos galore. This isn’t all what pride is about! It’s supposed to be about our sexuality and our rights and not being ashamed of who we are. But there is no representation for young people like I was! I want people to be themselves and express themselves but it all just seems so extreme now!

I’m a middle aged gay woman. I like books and countryside walks!

I am very worried about equal rights and the way they are, once again, under threat.
I have nothing in common with the people that now dominate ‘pride’. The last woman’s group I went to has long been shut down, as have the lesbian groups I used to attend back in the day. I’m worried gay youth are being sent a message that their sexuality must be linked to a certain type of ‘lifestyle’ when many of us just want to live a regular life the same as our straight friends - the only difference is the sex of our partners 🤷‍♀️.

Well, it’s a good attempt but you’re still way off.
A lesbian has a very clear definition. A female who is exclusively sexually attracted to other females. This is true whether those attractions are acted on or not.
The comparison with transwomen being women when they say so, is poor because you are unable to give a clear definition of what a woman is. “A transwoman is a a woman”, means nothing if you can’t define the word “woman”.

And if that woman carried on dating men would she still be a lesbian? Because that is the parallel. A male cannot be a lesbian or woman just as someone dating men can be a lesbian.

Why are you making assumptions? I know what a woman and it is based on biology. That does not mean I have the same view as you about other issues.

@Conflictedunicorn You really think there are not lesbians who know really they are lesbian, but married to or dating men?
If lesbian is purely based on actions, then the term bisexual is meaningless. It is an identity.

Which other issues do we disagree on?

so you know what a woman is, but you’re willing to throw women under the bus for male feelings. Wow.

He wasn't even there either , by his own account. Being at a party uptown. Fred Sargeant is the best authority on that - and he was there.

So if no transwomen gas turned up, we would now have gay rights!! Wow! So all the LGB activists did fuck all? Really?

How is recognising lesbian is an identity, throwing women under the bus?
This used to be fairly mainstream feminist politics.

If a lesbian is happily married to or saying a man, she’s not a lesbian. She’s bisexual or straight. I’d she’s in a forced marriage, she may be a lesbian being abused but no woman in a opposite sex relationship willingly is a lesbian.

So by your definition bisexuality does not exist?
If sexuality is purely based on what you do, rather than how you identify?

Ummm yes. So a bisexual would be sexually attracted to both sexes. How is saying lesbians don’t date men denying bisexuality? Are you saying lesbians are bisexual and not female homosexuals?

Sexuality isn't about actions or identity. It is simply how you are aroused (there are physical mechanisms for measuring this) by other people. If you're confused by this you could ask a teenager.

No they fucking don't! They "become" (or are born) when they are sexually attracted to other women and only other women.

Even if your bizarre statement was true, it still wouldn't apply to people with penises. They don't become biological women attracted to other biological women just by uttering the magic statement.

It's not a bloody incantation.

There are lesbians who are with men but who are actually solely sexually attracted to women.
There are women who are sexually attracted to (and married/with) men and also women, they are not lesbians, they are bisexual.

It's not about actions, and its not about identity. IT's about attraction. Its not fucking hard.

Have people got so confused by identity politics and bullshit that they no longer understand the basics like what a lesbian is?

If a lesbian utters the words “I am straight” does she become straight, then?

I’m sure all the persecuted gay people throughout history would have loved to have known this! Why on Earth didn’t they think of it?

(Funny how it doesn’t sound such a good argument the other way around.)

But what does "trans inclusive" mean?

If it means the lesbian group includes transmen who are same-sex-attracted, no problem.

If it means the group includes transwomen who are opposite-sex-attracted, they shouldn't describe themselves as a lesbian group. Words mean things.

@CupidStunt22 yes it is about attraction. But how do you know what someone's attraction is? It is based on them simply saying I am a lesbian. I have never then quizzed someone and said - well are you attracted to women then?
Have you?

If you live near me I would signpost you to, and following agreed referral, would give you transport to, the male centre nearby* - they run mixed sex groups, we do not!

Sometimes, regardless of what the zeitgeist has you think, we (those of us who actually work in the sector, in places that are not London, Scotland, Brighton etc) are capable of meeting the needs of everyone who comes to us for help.

*Though we do have an issue with transwomen being sent to us without us having been told that they are trans. This causes very real issues for some of our client base - women - and has threatened our anonymity in the fairly recent past.

That verbal absurdity, out here in the Boonies, in my experience, only ever threatens to hurt women.

@Billi77 Look! You can see a great example of the verbal absurdity I referred to here!

What are you talking about? People say they are lesbians because they are attracted to women. Because they ARE lesbians. They don't say it and it becomes true! I don't quiz anyone because why on earth would I?

But when male bodied people say they are lesbians, I know they are not. I don't need to quiz them, as its impossible for them to be lesbians due to the term not applying to them.

How are you so confused by this?

@CupidStunt22 Lesbian is an identity. And we can see when it is obvious that some people do not accept some other women as lesbians.
Some say if you have ever been with a man sexually you are not a lesbian. Some say political lesbians are not real lesbians.
It is contested ground.
Personally if a woman says she is a lesbian I am fine with that. But I do not pretend it is some objective reality.

But we are not in 'some countries', we in the UK

You’re missing the point that however contested the boundaries of the term are, it is still always possible for a woman to be a lesbian.

By definition, it isn’t possible for a man to be a lesbian. Unless you completely change the terms woman and lesbian to make them completely different entirely.

@theclangersarecoming I do not disagree.