Wade/Roe decision, will you be joining the 'Red' protest ?

[gonnascreamsoon]

Lots on SM about showing solidarity with all women who have had their right to end a pregnancy, for any reason, taken away. Many countries planning to 'Buy nothing, do nothing' and turn all SM 'red' for 3 days etc

I honestly think that if all women round the world actually did this,( i.e no housework/shopping/cooking/laundry/work/childcare etc), then the shock to the governments could really be profound ?

What if all women decided that we'd no longer be willing to accept any male decisions ? e.g abiding by a 'do not resuscitate' order decision made by a man ?

Interested to hear others point of view on this.

The only person impacted by me going on “strike” would be my husband, kids and elderly parents. None of whom have any power to effect change.

Also the idea of women going on “strike” basically means “let’s annoy the men until they change the law”. Again giving men all of the power.

I meant if the patient was male, and had consented or asked for a DNR, and the hospital nurses etc were female and just unilaterally 'decided' that they did not agree with the DNR.

All I really mean is what if women decided that because they disagreed with a man's decision, they would not carry out his wishes concerning his own body?

Do you have any idea how cruel that would be? What a stupid idea. In fact the whole thing is a stupid idea, utterly pointless.

I'd love it if we all did something to show our value to those that don't see it, but I can't not work for three days or look after my child. I am wearing red today and tell people why (I usually only wear black and white so I know they'll ask!).
I won't be buying anything myself but the only things we buy ATM is fuel and food ... Both of which we need so DH will be buying it. Sadly no dip from us.

I thought it was about periods when I read the headline.

We should be careful not to think that the SCOTUS ruling will have no impact on us in the UK. Yes, our legal and political landscape is different. But women’s rights should never be taken for granted - anti-abortion campaigners in this country are already using the SCOTUS ruling to ‘open up the debate’. We’re already seeing attacks on our abortion law in parliament and we can expect more.

But it wasn’t just men who overturned Wade vs Roe and it isn’t just women who disagree with it. So pitting “women vs. men” is a bit stupid and counterproductive. Surely it’s better to encourage men to join the protest than hold them all responsible for decisions made in another country!

I'm probably not explaining myself very well, sorry.

Finally, something I agree with.

I suspect you mean well but my god you really need to think through some of your ideas before broadcasting them.

@gonnascreamsoon I am assuming you've never actually been near a DNR have you?
These are in place when CPR would be seen as futile or inconsistent with a dignified death.
You are advocating nursing staff ignore the patients wish, best practice and go on ahead and do some chest compression, maybe break a fragile rib or two in the process, but hey all good for the sm clicks. That's shown the patriarchy how measured and sensible you are?

If no women bought anything for 3 days, there would surely be a noticeable 'dip' in the financials of all business owners, making them aware of how strongly their 'customers' felt about the erosion of womens rights ?
No, either a man would do the shopping as normal, or a man or teenage boy would spend much more than normal on snacks, ready meals or takeaways. In the case of a single mother of younger children or a single woman maybe.

These constant threads are infuriating. Women in this country cannot get abortions already, we don’t need to follow America. We are already there. Why not concentrate on writing to your MP to tell them that women in Northern Ireland should be entitled to the same services as the rest of the UK.

Americans do not care if your Facebook profile is red or you don’t do the housework.

Another excellent point.

Wow. Wow. The DNR things is just.

I would very much fight for all involved to be in prison if this happened to my family members.

Do women a favour and try not to make us look like idiots publicly

I meant if the patient was male, and had consented or asked for a DNR, and the hospital nurses etc were female and just unilaterally 'decided' that they did not agree with the DNR.

Words fail me. Actually, they don't. Nurses - male or female - can't arbitrarily 'decide' they don't agree with the DNR. They would be heavily disciplined, likely struck off and subject to legal action. This is right up there with some of the most ridiculous things I've read on MN.

What would it even achieve? What point would it make? Why take out America's actions on a dying man?

Well I could sit on my arse for 3 days doing nothing except watch tv and my dh wouldn't care because he's not the kind of man who 'expects' me to do anything.
And I hate the sheeple attitude of changing your fb profile picture, 'I've had my covid jab' 'Clap for NHS' 'I'm taking a stand against cancer'. No one pays attention anyway, it's just another thing people do simply because they see everyone else doing it don't want to look like they're not doing their bit on social media.

It's battery and they could be prosecuted

My partner is male
So is my father
And Brother
And grandfathers
And the guys I work with
They did not vote for this
I am not at war with any of them
What happens in the US is nothing to do with us
Any more than what happens here is anything to do with a person in another country
Do you really think if you do not hoover your house in the UK it will bother anyone on the USA
Where does it stop
When are you going to protest about the way women are treated in Saudi
Afghan Egypt Pakistan Quatar India Africa
You could send your whole life protesting about what is happening in other countries

I am conceivably wasting my breath, but abortion is not illegal in the USA, and nor did the overturning of Roe v Wade make abortion illegal. Put briefly, Roe decided that the constitution of the United States protected the right of a woman to have an abortion, and it therefore made it impossible for any state to totally ban abortion. It has never made all abortion, per se, a right and it has never determined the extent to which women could exercise that right, which has remained with state legislatures. Roe was actually about the right to privacy; and the Roe ruling included the assertion that the right to abortion should not be absolute and must be balanced against the government's interests in protecting women's health and prenatal life. That is why the entire situation has always been a mess, with massive variation across the country.

The recent ruling was, perversely, not really about abortion at all. The argument put by pro-lifers was that since abortion is not and never has been a right in the USA, then the constitution cannot protect a “right” that did not exist at the time of framing and still does not exist as a right.
That is because the USA has no law at all on abortion rights – it never has had. All abortion laws, whether you like them or not, are made by state legislatures. There are lots of legal arguments for and against the Supreme Courts decision, but in the end it is all about angels dancing on pinheads – it is about words and how those words are defined. And that is what is will remain about – with some states having liberal laws and others having restrictive laws – until such time as there is US law on the right to an abortion. How on earth a country the size of the US, with so much independence of state legislatures will ever get to that stage when a country the size of a pinhead in comparison (the UK) can’t do it, is anyone’s guess.

But the USA has not made abortion illegal, and it has never made it legal either. Until people understand the basics of the situation, then it will continue to generate ill-conceived “solutions” and prejudice. The fact is that the majority of Americans (including men) favour abortion, and they need to get active and sort out their own laws and rights. The rest of the world really isn’t in a position to tell them how to do that, because we are far from perfect on abortion or many other issues around human rights.

Thank you for this.

...you might want to hide under the dining table, because I suspect you are about to be vociferously misunderstood.

roe v Wade was bad law. Even Bader-Ginsberg thought so.

houses built on sand fall flat.

if US citizens want abortion to be available in their respective states, they will need to engage with their state legislatures and have adult conversations as to what the limits should be. Since most are apparently in favour of abortion being available (see upthread), there should be enough to effect change at the state level. They can solve this for themselves.

hysteria of the sort pushed on social media is unhelpful.

and no, a protest in the UK will not be helpful. It will do naff all other than alienate people on the fence who might otherwise have listened and agreed.

it’s also virtue signalling.

If you want to effect change - get out there and get involved in actual politics (not ‘activism’). Develop you arguments in a logical and coherent manner. And stop assuming everyone agrees with you (and for those so inclined- stop shouting’bigot’ at everyone holding different views to your own)

@Jalisco - thank you. Really clearly explained.

I would have thought that men were against this too. It affects them. If women can’t have abortions they will have to pay maintenance payments.

women who have had their right to end a pregnancy, for any reason

It would be worth protesting about if it were even true. But it’s not. Even in states where abortion is now illegal, there are exceptions where the woman’s life is at risk. So “for any reason” is just not true.

And what’s all this “laws made by men” nonsense? In my state our abortion law was the result of a referendum voted on by the people - men and women. And my state permits abortions far later than the UK and without the need for doctor approval. Maybe you need to protest at home first?

I don't get why it's a "red" protest (Republicans use red?, blood?, if this is Handmaid's Tale I think it's already been well discussed how that hasn't been helping) and I don't think there has been enough network support established to do a 3 day strike. The women's strikes that have worked before all had that before to protect the more vulnerable and to get the striking women visible and connecting with each other to be able to maintain pressure after the 3 day strike. They were all part of wider movements. No dip is going to matter that much without that.

I feel far too many protests don't really think these things through. I feel there is a lot of resistance to the kind of community networking that would actually help make these things effective. No conversation is serious without that, no conversation on something that lasts 3 days is that serious. At least the sex strike conversations are indefinite even if the most vulnerable would be unlikely to get that choice.

Everything that starts in USA rears it's head in the UK a few years later

I feel that this ignores that abortion still hasn't been decriminalised in England, Scotland, or Wales and pretty much ignores all of Northern Ireland where even with the recent law change, we still have girls and women having to travel because of lack of access. We also have only a few restriction zones on protesters.

The American apple hasn't fallen that far and a lot that happens in the US has recent roots in the UK and other parts of Europe. As much as the US likes to export its culture, it's not a one way street.

And thinking you can take frustration out on the dying? You want medical professionals to violently assault dying men to make a point on body autonomy That's what ignoring a DNR would be, medical assault, something that is already an issue on both sides of the Atlantic. This is worse than the ones going around about forced vasectomies, ignoring that also already happens, but at least that's remotely relevant.

And remember, Roe v Wade ruling was in place for almost 50 years. There were many times it could have been codified in a way that could have prevented this. There were many times we were promised it would and then it wasn't a priority. These by nature temporary rulings have been used as a means of keeping power that doesn't care what we do for 3 days.

How does you wearing red help the women affected by this in America,Its as pointless as the no make up selfie nonsense for cancer awareness .

Yes I suppose it is not illegal in America as a whole, but of 2 July it is illegal again in Texas for one. I’m sure there will be a lot of to and fro in the courts over this.

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