to expect house sellers to have a moral compass? absolutely fuming

[Itsonthestairs]

We sold our house earlier this year and bought another, our buyer are fabulous and we've had great communication with them throughout the process, the house we purchased fell through after spending around £2000 on solicitors fees and a survey, this was because the vendor didn't have the right planning permissions and refused to rectify it, therefore unmortgagable according to our solicitor (this was 3 months down the line). Obviously we were really upset at not getting the house but also the vendors attitude (its gone straight back onto the market and I suspect some other poor person is going to end up in the same position). Anyway onwards and upwards, our buyers are really understanding an said they will wait so we have been scouring the market.
We viewed one this morning - almost perfect, rang up to ask a couple of questions to be told the property has had an offer excepted already! ok why didn't they cancel our viewing then after me a DH arranged the morning off work to view it? their response was 'the vendors accepting viewing until the survey is done next week' this tells me that an offer must have been accepted weeks ago (its around a 3 week wait at the moment locally to get a survey). I'm fuming not only for us but for the person who has actually bought that house and is paying hundreds on a survey. I would never treat people or buyers of our property in such a shitty way. I know the market is hot right now but come on - AIBU expecting vendors to have some morals?

@AmandaHoldensLips i think I’m
grateful he left the light bulbs…..the jury is still out on that.
today I think I may well be ‘moving in’ with an air bed, for a fortnight, so I can get things to a habitable state reasonably soon (at least upstairs) - as it’s a 3 hour drive from when we currently are.

Lucky you to have encountered such easily solvable issues - that isn't my experience and it doesn't sound like the OP's either. Not mislaid paperwork or leasehold issues, but literally not having the right to use the land owned as advertised, no legal access, undisclosed overage charges, no PP for extensive work, or as the OP, work carried out in an area of natural beauty / SSSI etc. I doubt many sensible people would turn down a decent property for the sake of £80 - but these aren't those sorts of problems!

The system in England is just awful. My best mate put in an offer and arranged surveys for a house and then the seller changed thier mind and the sale fell through. The next house they offered on the survey valued the property as lower then their offer and the bank refused the mortgage
.

My parents were just about the exchange contracts and the buyers have just pulled out. They've already laid conversing and survey fees, loacla authority checks. A skip and put a deposit on a removals. It's crazy that is allowed. I hope you get through this.

Moved in 7 weeks from viewing last End July. We had a chain of ‘decent’ people with common sense. But it still only happened quickly because I kind of project managed it, in cahoots with a progress chaser from one of the agents. The solicitors were ok but did need pushing sometimes. I also made sure everyone knew what was expected, as previously got bitten (22 years ago) when, on day of exchange, the buyer of one property had got to that point without realising he had to handover deposit money up the chain 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ He then did something crazy on completion day that meant completion was delayed so we didn’t get into the house until 6pm 😵‍💫😳. This time round was far less stressful, in part to our wonderful removals team who were so chilled, careful and downright lovely. Though next time (if there is one) I will pay the extra to have someone pack 🫣😂

I’m house-hunting at the moment, for the third time. The previous two times were in a “buyer’s market”, and were so different. I remember from before that if you asked to view a house the agent would want to get you in asap. Now they book everything at least a week in advance, you get offered one slot, and if you can’t do that one, tough. It feels as though agents just can’t be bothered- they know buyers will be fighting over every house whether they lift a finger or not. The system is completely broken, and the lengths and amount of insecurity you’re expected to expose yourself to are ridiculous, and the urgency and intensity of it all pretty much forces buyers to behave unethically just to protect themselves.

I've been buying and selling houses for over 50 years . 5 different solicitors in two UK countries. Sometimes, a purchase or sale fell through (for reasons similar to your own).

NOT ONE of those solicitors ever charged me a bean for anything they had done during a failed conveyance.

The system is so shit, why don't people want change?

Exactly!
This was point was well driven home yesterday… sitting at the dinner table.. all the family who had bought houses 20 years ago saying things like
Go for multiple viewings , see the house in all lightings, offer under and negotiate, etc.

I can’t even get ONE viewing let alone multiple?!???

They were also wittering on about not buying before a crash.

Yes darling but we need a place to stay, won’t have anywhere to rent with all the LL’s selling up and won’t get a mortgage during a crash so unless you want to offer us a rent free room at yours until it’s all over …

Also to add it’s very location dependent.
I’ve seen houses with agents desperate to sell. Figured out why the moment I saw it.

The ones that I actually want? So does everyone else!

When we buy, the condition is always the property must be marked as sold and no further viewings allowed.

Clearly the seller believes the buyer is not genuine.

I put YABU, on balance.

On the first property the vendor is being short-sight, presumably hoping for a cash-buyer that won't care. I took the vendor of one house right up to the line insisting they rectified the lack sign-off on a 9yo extension before we'd exchange. Survey costs are a house-hunting cost not a purchase cost. It's not unusual to have paid for surveys on two or more properties by the time you get around to completing on one.

On the second house, you should have been told the house was under offer. But if I'm the Vendor I don't stop marketing the property, taking viewings, and considering offers until Exchange. It's moral to inform people there's an offer, but given the broken conveyancing process in England and Wales it would be stupid to put up an Under Offer sign and turn away everyone else. Offers fall through all the time (as per your first example).

I really don't understand why its not a priority for the house buying system to be changed. I presume the government are getting money out of it somewhere, but it don't understand where or why.

@Annonnimoouse42 stamp duty, searches, (a portion of the charges will
go to councils) land registry fees, possibly the epc, tax on various insurances. The government and councils will do quite nicely out of the current system.

Until estate agents develop morals or are subject to any real regulations that make the process safe and fair to buyers and sellers, people can and will do as they please.

Eh?
Many people don’t have several hundreds of pounds spare to be paying for surveys on multiple houses. I’ve never heard of agents even allowing it until the offer has been accepted.

Similarly… house purchases take ages. Buyers will have spent money on surveys, solicitor deposits etc.
And you think it’s fair to let them, when the property might not be theirs?

I hope I never have to buy from someone like you

Most people don't buy/sell property frequently enough for it to be a significant issue at election time. It's a PITA whilst you're doing it, but not important to you until you do it again.

But if I'm the Vendor I don't stop marketing the property, taking viewings, and considering offers until Exchange

When your buying do you offer on multiple properties then? I assume you assume anything your buying could fall through?

It's not unusual to have paid for surveys on two or more properties by the time you get around to completing on one.

Is it? I only book my survey once whoever I'm buying off has also had an offer accepted.

Is this because you offer on multiple properties?

Agree with this.

I'm a conveyancer and have been for over 10 years. I'm yet to come across a planning issue which couldn't be resolved via indemnity policies.

A lot of the time it's not even the current vendor who has done anything wrong but old works which were already in place when they bought too.

The only "common" reason for an indemnity to be denied is because the works aren't over 12 months old.

The seller should pay for any indemnity provided but we have also had buyers pay to get matters over the line if a vendor refuses to.

What were the planning issues? Did your solicitor even look into indemnity insurance before saying it was "unmortgageable". It really is extremely rare for a house to be completely unmortgageable, issues can 99% of the time be rectified with a bit of extra paperwork.

And yes, people.often like to talk about never trusting a lawyer but estate agents are equally morally repugnant in my experience (often far worse telling outright lies or discussing things they literally have no knowledge of whatsoever, which is practically the whole house buying process really!). They want things done as quickly as possible to get their commission that's their goal, not being honest or assisting the buyer.

Meanwhile solicitors get the grief 9 times out of 10 when their fees (considering they do more than triple the work of an EA) are less than half what the EA makes.

Look hate the system not the vendors. Yes they should have behaved better but the system lets them get away with it.

'England has a fair, transparent and easy to navigate property buying / selling process' - said NO-ONE. EVER.

I have never understood why governments don't try to overhaul this. I think it would be a vote winner from whatever political stance you take. You could get Kirstie and Phil to oversee the new process

It’s the ENGLISH system that’s shite. There’s none of this crap with the system in Scotland. You can buy/sell a house and move in within 6-8 weeks here

We have bought and sold in America, and bought here. Everyone says American estate agents are the worst, and their standard commission is 6(!) per cent. But the American system is much more thoughtful and builds in more protection for everyone. Gazumping and gazaundering are illegal.

I hate the whole thing and I’m not fond of estate agents with the exception of one friend in the profession. But I would rather pay 6% in the American system again than endure what we’ve been through here again. Which is too bad, because it is stopping us from downsizing.

There are two things where I would always presume nastiness until proven otherwise- house sales and used car sales. Even if people are wonderful about everything else.

As for a solution- Scottish law unless someone can improve on that.

I think you’ll find it’s the English system which treats buyers like this. There are no multiple surveys in Scotland, just a one off home report. Our system is not perfect, BTW, but I’ve bought and sold in both countries and know what I prefer.