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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

First death

41 replies

Londonmaine · 30/06/2022 05:12

I’ve been a posting member of Mumsnet for as long as it started. I’ve not posted in a few years.

Some old people may remember, moved from London to an island in Maine, had a child etc etc. Did the whole poo/diaper gate thing that went viral. Had the MIL from hell.

Anyway, just trying to prove I’m credible. So on my journey of trying not to be shit and useless I’ve become an EMT. So basically an ambulance person/ first responder.

I had my first death today. They made me do the CPR (fine with that, I need the experience) and the gentleman (who I knew well, it’s a small island) didn’t survive. He had clearly been dead a while when we got there but when family are present it’s protocol to do as much as you can.

I can’t reach out to anyone here, I don’t want them to think I’m weak or unable to cope so I’m posting here because I just feel so sad. We couldn’t have helped him, but he was so frail (and naked) and I feel like everyone was so experienced they treated him like a piece of meat and with no respect. Given that I’ve been crying for three hours I completely understand why they do that.

Dont get me wrong, at the time I did everything I needed to do. 25 minutes of CPR and and AED I just feel really bloody awful to witness the end of a life.

Is this something that will be a great, empathetic skill or should I just quit?

OP posts:
bare · 30/06/2022 05:21

Oh Maine, I'm sorry for your experience. I remember you on your island, fascinating stories. Congratulations on becoming an ambulance person.

I'm sure everyone in that position felt like that the first time they went through that experience. It must be accentuated when you are so familiar with all the people on the island. I wouldn't worry about opening up, just saying that it affected you because it was your first experience is fine.

I'm sure other experienced paramedics, nurses, doctors will be along to help in a bit

TreeOfPain · 30/06/2022 05:23

No! There's no skill. Just attrition I guess.

You tried, you did your best. That's better than I've ever done.

No-one thinks you're weak. People are ultimately just meat. That's not necessarily a bad thing for first-responders to think, it's probably quite healthy.

Hope you're OK.

sorryiasked · 30/06/2022 05:24

Flowers you did amazingly well.
25 mins is a long, long time.
Take comfort from the fact that he had already passed when you arrived, and your actions were for the family's piece of mind.
I'm afraid that there is rarely any dignity in these situations, it's a case of doing what needs to be done. And you did that.
But it's never easy to witness a death, and if you didn't care you wouldn't be a good EMT.

Londonmaine · 30/06/2022 05:31

Thank you. It was just so sad to be working on someone with no clothes on or dignity and for people to be so blasé. I completely get it, I was saying similar things. But I just wanted to give him a hug and put clothes on him. I wouldn’t want my parent to pass like that.

OP posts:
Londonmaine · 30/06/2022 05:34

It’s a very long time. Especially when it’s very obvious they have been dead for a while. It just felt so insulting. I get that family want you to do everything, I would too, but I just wanted to get him off the floor and cover him up. The end of life is really brutal sometime I guess. I don’t think I’ll ever get used to that.

OP posts:
Cantdoitallperfectly · 30/06/2022 05:38

As a nurse I have seen/been involved many cardiac arrests and resuscitations. I do think it’s very wrong to not try and preserve some sort of dignity for the patient, be it covering up genitalia etc. The first event you experience is always traumatic and as a team there should be some sort of debrief afterwards. Do you have a mentor/buddy you can speak to?

Well done on your efforts. It’s never easy especially if you have known the patient.

Ps I’m curious about nappygate!!

Unescorted · 30/06/2022 05:40

Death is not dignified even when people have clothes on and people aren't present.

The myth of a Hollywood death is for the family. You are a fabulous EMT because despite your feelings on the matter you gave the family the fiction that his family needed.

GreatCrash · 30/06/2022 05:44

My mum was a nurse. I remember her saying that the first time one of her patients died she walked out of the hospital and couldn't believe that the world was carrying on unchanged and unconcerned after what had just happened. You do get used to it though. You sound awesome. Sending hugs.

HarlanPepper · 30/06/2022 05:44

I totally understand how distressing this would have been for you.

I can't believe they attempted resuscitation for 25 minutes on a patient who had clearly been dead for a long time though? And I thought you needed a shockable rhythm for AED?

DrunkSquirrels · 30/06/2022 05:56

I’m so sorry.

If you get to the stage where a death doesn’t affect you and that’s the time you need to think about leaving your job. You will get to a point where you manage and process it differently but it’s the end of a life and it will always affect you.

Over here, there would be some type of debrief and opportunity to discuss and process with others who had been involved. Do you do that there? It would be perfectly reasonable to say that you wish you have been able to preserve some of his dignity better. I bet some other people will share your view and others will probably be able to explain why that couldn’t be prioritised at the time (if you don’t know already).

be kind to yourself – and be proud that you did everything you could.

Roselilly36 · 30/06/2022 06:08

Your human OP, most people would feel upset. You did your absolute best, and sadly sometimes there is nothing that anyone can do to change the outcome. I have relatives in the services, that have dealt with similar situations, it’s really tough. Get some support in rl through your employer, you won’t be the only one who has needed this. Sending you hugs and thank you for what you do.

TheLadyofShalott1 · 30/06/2022 06:15

Oh dear @Londonmaine I just want to give you a big hug!

When I was a student nurse I was nursing an elderly (but not ancient) man on the busy ward of male surgical, at quite a large hospital. I certainly hadn't known that gentleman before nursing him on the ward, but when he did unfortunately die, I and another nurse, were told to go and get a cup of tea, and afterwards asked if we would like to help prepare him before he went to the mortuary, or prefer to leave that to someone else. We decided to help prepare him, both out of respect for him - we knew him as a living person, not just a cadaver - and because it helped us cope with the sadness of his dying.

He was my first non family death (I had previously seen my Grandmother just after she had died, but I had never seen anyone die before). I felt that the nurse who told us to take 10 minutes for a cup of tea (it was a very busy ward, we often had to work through breaks), and then gave us the choice of whether to help prepare his body or not, was very understanding and said and did exactly the right things. I went home after that shift still sad for the poor man and his family, but I was also able to allow myself my feelings, and to even feel grateful that I had had a chance to make his last days and hours just that little bit more comfortable.

However your first patient death experience was much worse than mine. It was your first death, you knew the man, and presumably his family, you were given a very important job to do (the CPR) even though you and the other EMTs/paramedics knew that he wouldn't actually be revived - you were doing something for the sake of his loved ones. So I am disappointed that the other more experienced emergency responders could do a kind act for the poor gentleman's family, but they did not check up on you, or give you any advice afterwards.

So my answer to you does not need any hesitation; I believe that you feel something that will transpire into a bloody great empathetic skill, so well done, and thank you so much for doing your best for that gentleman, for caring, and for respecting him. You will not continue to be devastated at every death, or weep buckets, but some will still get to you, maybe even worse than today, an easy example being the death of a child, or a young mother dying when she has young children depending on her.

Every time you have a death, or an overly traumatic case, your colleagues should be there for you, just as I am sure that with experience you will be there for them. At the end of every traumatic case the person in charge should ask if each and everyone of you is ok, and their experience should tell them when a colleague is saying they are ok, but they are not really. But they are human too, and the trauma may be bad enough to stop them from being able to reach out for a while too.

You are right that most deaths will be considered sad, but with experience they just won't have the same affect on any of you, as our human bodies and brains have to help us cope with the things life throws at us, especially if it is during the course of doing our jobs. However, I do hope that you are mistaken in thinking that they just thought of him, or treated him, like a piece of meat, and nearly every patient, alive or dead, should be treated with respect. If your colleagues seemed brusque it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care. If in 2, 5, 10 years time, you find that you are not being affected at all by any deaths or severe trauma, then maybe that would be the time to consider whether you need to change professions.

Again, thank you for caring @Londonmaine, and I do hope that you decide to continue with your job, or at least give it a chance, as I am sure that you will be a great asset to your profession and patients. But if after whatever amount of time seems right to you, you are still finding things too sad and traumatic, then you must put your own welfare first. 💐💐💐

ladydoris · 30/06/2022 06:28

My heart goes to you OP. It's normal, you should talk about it. Nobody will see you as weak. Thanks also for you caring as others have said. It's not only about what we do but how we feel that makes death dignified or not. You were there 100%. Thank you in the name of the family of this person. I hope you don't quit.

Penguinevere · 30/06/2022 06:38

I had similar thoughts to yours with the first resuscitation I was involved in. It was a missed chance for a peaceful death.

the thing is you can save people with your skills. Sometimes you will be working on people who actually do have a chance of survival.

iloveeverykindofcat · 30/06/2022 06:39

OP you are so brave and doing such an important job. You have my utmost respect. If it wasn't for people like you I wouldn't be typing this. I'll tell you a little story - a few years ago I was in a freak accident. Basically I feel down a stairwell and because of the way the unmovable furniture was positioned at the bottom I got positional asphyxia (I think its called) - briefly stunned and got trapped. Anyway the oxygen got cut off to my brain. Luckily my neighbour heard the fall and knocked on my door, and when there was no answer got concerned. Long story short I was clinically dead for a few minutes, EMT people CPRd me, and I woke up a few days later with almost no damage. Just sprains and bruises and things. The ICU staff were amazed and said that the EMTs100% saved my life. Well, them and my neighbour. Now granted I had everything going for me - I'm reasonably young, fit, I'm a swimmer so my lungs are strong and the house I lived in was very close to a hospital, but if it wasn't for people like you, the doctors wouldn't even have had a chance to do their work because I would've been permanently dead before I got to hospital. EMTs are the best and deserve more respect and pay.

Underroad · 30/06/2022 06:49

My partner is a paramedic and I often spend time with her and her colleagues. They do an incredible job and have all been doing it for such a long time that most deaths don’t affect them any more and they have developed a gallows humour that allows them to do their job. However, the majority of them felt the same as you when they encountered their first couple of deaths. It’s a natural response until you get more used to it. And they all say that even after doing the job for 10-20 years they still all come across the occasion that really gets to them - not always a death, just something that presses their buttons emotionally.

Dont give up. You’re doing a great job. Let yourself feel how you feel and then move on.

KangarooKenny · 30/06/2022 06:51

If it was obvious he had been dead for a while I wouldn’t have done CPR, to maintain his dignity.

TheNoodlesIncident · 30/06/2022 06:55

You would be more strange to be unaffected by that though, it is very emotive. I think if he had been my loved one I would have been more offended that CPR was done on him, as he was already totally dead... there was no dignity in that! I have seen this happen on a TV programme about paramedics and felt the same, that it is a silly waste of time and effort and there is no dignity for the deceased.

You're doing a great job. You'll process this and move on, maybe you'll develop the same protective layer that your colleagues have - it's not that they don't care, I bet they do - and not let the circumstances get to you. You'll be OK. Flowers

ThisKiltIsMadeForWalking · 30/06/2022 06:55

I have a family member who works in hospital. First time someone has a patient die, they all go out to the pub after. I thought this was really weird and a but disrespectful, but he explained it so the person isn’t alone afterwards thinking about it.

Suzi888 · 30/06/2022 06:56

I think it would be normal to be very upset in these circumstances and imagine people who have these careers always take awhile to get used to and deal with traumatic and upsetting incidences. It was your first time, it’s a very worthwhile career that not many people can do. I admire you and all others that can.

On a side note isn’t there something in place/are you able to ask a family member for something to cover the person’s dignity with… or even a wad of that blue roll/tissue (like kitchen paper) we have here.

Sheeponahill · 30/06/2022 06:59

Slightly different, but dh has been a police officer for 25 years. He still talks about the first death he attended - a young woman who committed suicide.Having done that one, he was a lot more detached - you go to a job, do what needs doing and move on to the next one.
it sounds like you did everything you could for the patient. I would imagine it’s a job where you lean more on the job than in the classroom - his lack of dignity seems to be playing on your mind, so knowing that, if you’re in that situation again, maybe ask for a towel or a sheet to cover him up.
You sound like you’re doing a great job!

Rinatinabina · 30/06/2022 07:18

Just 💐

Darbs76 · 30/06/2022 07:18

My friends daughter is an EMT and she said they need to do resuscitation unless there are signs of decomposing. I was so grateful my dad had signed a DNR when he was dying from a lung disease. If he hadn’t the EMT were going to attempt CPR as that’s the policy. My mum had to show them his DNR straight away. It made me realise why it’s important to sign a DNR if you’re dying. My mums friends brother was resuscitated and he was dying from cancer. He then died the next day. My dad would have gone mad if we had brought him back, when he was dying.

OP I hope you’re ok, I’m sure that first death hits hard. Can you reach out to someone?

Cyclingforcake · 30/06/2022 07:19

I have been a doctor for over 20years. I still feel like crying for every single death and some stay with you more than others. But it does become easier to compartmentalise as you get more experienced.

Sausagedognamedmash · 30/06/2022 07:28

A friend of mine is a nurse who happened to be working a shift on the ward the day my grandad died. He was end of life so there was nothing to be done in terms of saving him, but she came in, covered him up, wiped his face, gave me a hug, moved the family to a room for a cup of tea whilst they removed all his wires etc. She then told me afterwards that she felt like she knew him through me and talked to him the whole time then went and had a cry in a storage cupboard. She works on an end of life ward and sees death multiple times a day, she said she cries every time and does whatever she can to make them and the family feel comfort and dignity in those very undignified moments.

You are a great EMT. You have passion and care and empathy and you wouldn't be human if your first death didn't affect you. Sadly its something you will likely become a little closed off to if it is something you deal with a lot, but you will no doubt kept the empathy for the patient and their family.