Should the national minimum wage apply in this situation?

[Tig33]

My child has started a job at a local business. It appears that they are paying £6 per day. It all seems v vague (it was an advert in their window asking for someone after school) and they have not given any written information. The issue is that is appears that it may take up to two hours per day (deliveries) so based on this week they worked over 4.75 hours and were paid £18 (3 days work so 3x£6). I thought that employers had to pay the national minimum wage. Which for under 18s is £4.81. I suggested that my son asks them to clarify but as a young person in their first job I can see why he feels uncomfortable. I am well aware that I should not get involved but seems off to me so any advice would be welcome

How old is he? There is no minimum wage for under 16s.

sorry I should have said he is over 16 (advert specified over 16 was a requirement)

Ah then yes but there is a few ways around it, has he signed a contract? They may say it is a self employed position or they may say it should take 1 hour in which case they are paying above minimum wage. I suppose it depends how much he wants the job versus how much he doesnt want to be exploited as to what you do next.

Thank you. There has been no paper work at all. When he went in to the shop about the advert in the window they told him to come in on Monday which he did. And then worked Tuesday and today. Worked almost two hours Monday and Tuesday and over an hour today and was paid £18 in cash. I asked if they took his NI number but apparently not. I think he is keen to have a job and is not a very assertive type. Of course I am not keen for him to be exploited and think he needs to speak up now or at least seek clarity on the pay. Apparently they never mentioned pay rate…

If they paid by the hour then there would be a dissentive to be quick doing the round. I'm guessing it is something akin to a paper round.
That £6 equates to approximately 1h15mins at nmw. Maybe that is how long they figure the round should take. Around here the paper boys cycle or scooter (electric scooter - not entirely legal but an ideal use case) to be quicker.

Yes I guess it is like a paper round, that is a good point. The set up is that he does it by bike. I was quite surprised how far he needs to travel - well out of local area so much further than he would if it were a paper round. So far two days took him 1 hour 50 mins and one day just over an hour so I kept a rough note. Maybe as he becomes more familIar with the job he will be able to do it faster!

Don't forget travelling to and from your place of work isn't paid so it would only be the time it takes him from arriving at the shop to arriving back at the shop that counts, not the time from leaving the house to getting home.

Thank you. That is a good point as I am counting the time he starts (ie arrives at the shop) but guess that there is the ‘ end of ‘shift’ point at the last drop off as he makes his last delivery (which could be far away from home)

This happened to my nephew. They gave him a double round but just gave him a set amount. His dad went with him one day and ascertained that it was physically impossible to complete the round in the time.

nephew told them to stuff the job and got a better paid job potwashing. Newsagent can’t recruit.

I think I would look at chucking it in - McDonald’s hires teens I believe and they’re supposed to be very good to work for actually. This job sounds patchy at best,

Basic facts are that he should get NMW if he's over 16. There's nothing in the NMW legislation about businesses deciding that they think a job should only take an hour so only paying for an hour - if it's taking him eg 2 hours then unless there is some massive back story we are missing then he should get paid for the 2 hours.
He can make a report here if he wants to?

www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/national-minimum-wage-enquiries-and-complaints

Thank you. I have suggested that he asks them on Monday how long they expect him to work each day. He was it keen on simply asking out right what the hourly pay was. Seems so odd to me that they have not been clear on that with him. He is so pleased to have a job and it seems good for his confidence but I feel concerned that it doesn’t seem right that they are so vague about hours and pay. I wonder if I am a bit naive as I have worked for large organisations so long that I just assume things like contracts and hourly rates are standard but I do not like the idea of a business basically exploiting young people!