Is this normal? Will it get better?

[WildWildWestJimWest]

I have a 5 year old girl and a 5 month old baby boy. Today the 5 year old has squeezed and kissed her brother (he was on my lap) and bit his cheek. Hard. First I realised (assumed she was just kissing him) was him crying out in pain 😢 and then crying obviously.

We were at a friend's house and I was so shocked I didn't really know how to respond and told her not to do that again and say sorry etc etc, I think if we'd been at home I would have hit the roof and shouted and sent her to her room (through shock, I'm not particularly a shouty mum or person)

There is now a bruise and 2 red lines of teeth marks on his cheek. She wasn't particularly remorseful (usually if she purposely or accidently hurts someone in anyway she cries as she feels bad) and seemed to think it was a bit of a joke - kept saying sorry really sarcastically like a teenager. She genuinely day to day seems to love her new brother (we have 2 kids total and don't plan to have anymore) and occasionally cuddles him too tightly but has never hurt him purposely before, or even really accidently.

I'm mortified. Is my daughter going to morph into a bit of an emotionless psycho and start hurting her brother?! Is this normal? Does it get better?

Genuine tips on how to deal with this please, we've taken away all screen time for a week but no idea what else to do as she's never done anything spiteful like this before. I'm at a loss. I also feel like I'm failing her, she's clearly not getting enough attention even though we're trying so hard to make sure she does.

YABU this isn't normal, you're doing something wrong and need to fix it.
YANBU this is a normal sort of reaction for a new baby in the house don't worry about it.

No idea if it’s normal, but following with interest.

hopefully it was a lapse in attention and she won’t do it again?

I’m afraid this carried on with mine, my oldest was very jealous no matter what we did.
Keep an eye on your oldest as tight cuddles can cause damage.

Imo dosing pfb up on lots of attention is fueling their belief they are more important than the new baby!! Maybe including her more helping you with the baby is more useful.. Can she organise the nappy changing stuff? Help choose his outfit? Also at least a few mins later bedtime can avoid her thinking she is missing out by baby still being up...positive things to being the oldest
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My eldest was super jealous of my youngest when she was born. Bit and hit the baby, also picked her up and hid her behind the curtains once.

They’re 6 and 3 now and absolutely the best of friends. They argue like any siblings but generally are very good together.

I spent a lot of time reassuring DD1 that I still loved her just as much as I loved DD2 but that as a baby DD2 needed me more physically.

Could be that she doesn't understand what she did ... its can be a rush of conflicting emotions that confuses even adults.
Look up Cute(ness)Aggression . It that urge to bite cute , plump arms or cheeks of babies. She may have got a rush of that. It has been scientifically researched by the way.
At 5 she may not be able to have a lot of understanding of others feelings etc Babies can be objectified like toys
If she is getting a fair amount of attention, then carry on as you are. Just work on teaching her empathy. Sounds normal to me.

Thank you so far,I tell her all the time I love them equally and when he was born my heart doubled in size so I have equal amounts of love for them both etc etc,I don't think I've over invested too much time in her so she thinks she more important, I've tried to make it really even and carry on doing stuff like we did before so he hasn't stopped her from having the same amount of attention but he's there too with us.

Thats a good point about getting her to help me, at first she wanted to help me loads with nappy changes and stuff but now she doesn't seem to (or perhaps I've stopped including her so much?!)

I've done things like Bath them together which she seems to enjoy. She's very mature and intelligent at school etc and has been acting absolutely fine at school too so this is really out of the blue. I want to fix it and I also don't know what to do about this biting incident aside from take away screen time.

I do know what you mean as I absolutely want to bite him sometimes because I love his little baby feet etc so much (sounds weird but I'm sure lots of mums know what I mean!) So maybe I'm reading into things too much and it's just that?!

I honestly cannot imagine her ever biting anyone. She's never hit or kicked or done anything ever mean to a friend. It's totally out of the blue and I have no idea how to discipline her about it, so tips gratefully received! Thanks

Jealousy can be normal between siblings. Have you asked her why she did it? A 5yo knows biting hurts/is wrong. I'd expect that more from a toddler.

She absolutely knows it's wrong as they had it as one of their golden rules at nursery even and she's now at school. She also got bit once at nursery so she knows how it feels and that it's wrong.

She said she "doesn't know" why she did it and she "didn't realise" so I don't know why sadly.

It's totally possible that she doesn't really understand why she did it - as an adult I sometimes get an urge to do something which I then have to control and consider the underlying reasons for afterwards.

I have 3dc and with each new sibling have had to manage some sort of aggressive behaviour from their older siblings. Not often, but it is normal.

I wouldn't discuss it further with her. Make sure she knows that baby has to wait for her sometimes and not just the other way round. Sanction behaviour as you would if she did it to someone else child. But don't issue sanctions that make your life harder - for me, no screen time for a week would have been no more effective than no screen time for 2 days but it would have made MY life harder.

Have you talked to her since it happened? Calmly I mean, like you’re sincerely interested in hearing what happened for her to do it? I think helping her understand her emotions about him will help - help her to name feelings like jealousy or anger so she can start to reflect on it herself. I wonder if she was feeling something really strongly that she hasn’t been able to verbalise. It would explain why she isn’t remorseful - she’s still more angry than she is sorry. She needs help with understanding how she feels.

I think making them say sorry and taking away electronics aren’t going to help here. That has nothing to do with what happened, she didn’t hit him with her tablet. She isn’t a bad child, just very young and not as clever with emotions as with words.

When my dd was 2 my dd was born. She was so jealous. He was such an easy baby as he slept a lot. I used to let him sleep in evening and DH and I showered attention on to dd. Once she was in bed at 7 we would focus on baby. He would have a bath to wake him up then we would keep him up until 10, then he used to sleep until 6am. If my dd had bitten my DS I would have sat on bottom of stairs and made her stay there whilst I comforted baby. I would probably have told her she had been naught so I would no longer be taking her to park. So she associated hurting baby with missing out.

I do wish that people wouldn't describe children as 'mature'. They are not. They are children who are still unable to process their emotions and reactions, especially extreme ones.

Biting is not uncommon in children as a response to extreme emotion.

She said she "doesn't know" why she did it and she "didn't realise"

Of course she doesn't, she's 5. She can't rationalise her feelings. Just supervise her more closely with the baby and model gentle behaviour.

I have 4 children, my oldest was severely physically disabled but omg so jealous of his baby sister! He was 2.5 when she was born and I would never have left him alone with her as the sheer rage he displayed whenever I held her was something else! She was safe though as he physically couldn’t have reached out to her. They became best friends after 2 years and he realised she was good at fetching and carrying for him.

When I had my 3rd child when first 2 were 6 and 3.5, I researched best ways to introduce the new baby. I gave them both jobs around the baby, with the Moses basket placed next to my oldest and I would ask him to keep an eye on the baby for me, and my 2nd child helped with nappies etc.

An old Uni friend had a cousin who was severely disabled - I was shocked to find out that his older sister (who was 5 at the time) picked him up when their mum went to pay the milkman, and threw him against the TV. He was just a tiny new baby and was left with severe brain damage. Sorry for the cautionary tale here, but I do think you have to be so very careful.

I actually think removing screen time for a week is too long - I believe the consequence for a 5 year old should be short and sharp, something that can be put in place as quickly as possible, so she links both actions. Did she get any ‘big sister’ gifts? Mine got badges and then some teeshirts - just something to make the role feel special. I would try to have some 1:1 time just you and DD - I know how hard that can be - she’s had you to herself all her life, it’s a huge adjustment.

Yes I have talked to her calmly but your whole post really resonates with me and I'm going to reflect on it thank you.

Yes she got a special build a beat from the baby when he was born and she made him a card etc. It was lovely but now I think the jealousy is coming through. She's such a sweet natured girl this has come out of nowhere. But I think I need to remember she is only 5 and needs help with these big feelings. She is constantly supervised with him, he was literally sat on my lap but I'll definitely keep a close eye going forward.

I understand why you took away screen time for a week but I think at 5 it's too big a consequence and its unrelated. I'd tell her you overreacted and explain that the baby was very sore and you are now worried about them playing together in case she hurts him again, explain that the behaviour is not acceptable and if she hurts him again then you wont be able to do some activity that she enjoys doing together (like bath time) in case she hurts him while yoyre not looking. So something that is more of natural consequence.

Sometimes if its about their feelings you can make it clear its absolutely not acceptable but if you punish it just builds those feelings up and will magnify any issues between the siblings as she will associate him with lack of screen time for example. In my opinion.

That sounds horrible and she knew exactly what she was doing. She's 5yo not 3. She needs a punishment rather than making her say a wet apology.

I think she probably doesn't really know why she did it, and her stroppy 'apology' is probably partly defensiveness or embarrassment, especially if it's hugely out of character for her. I think it is not uncommon for small children to do something stupid on impulse and then think 'Arrrrggh! Why on earth did I do that? I knew this was bad...'

I once deliberately dropped one of my toys into a river. Even before it had hit the water I knew I'd been a complete nob, that I was never going to get the toy back, and that my mum was going to kill me. I sulked and scowled for the entire journey home, as if everyone was being unreasonable, because I was trying to justify in my own head why on earth I'd done something so stupid and wanted to deflect the blame somehow by pretending everyone else was in the wrong. Reader, they were not in the wrong.

Sounds pretty normal to me tbh (mum of three).

Obviously it's not great behaviour and she needs to know that it's not ok but I think it happens in most families, if not all.

It will get better!

Normal and tbh as the younger one gets bigger, it becomes a bit less horrifying as they can run away or whack back. Not that each incident shouldn't have a consequence!

It doesn't sound like a pattern of negativity towards him, if she was squeezing and kissing - kids sometimes just get carried away and do silly things. She was wrong, I would punish but not a whole week of telly.

Around about the point you're at with a new sibling, the initial novelty and effort to help smooth the older sibling fades away, the older one can start acting up in a 'this was a nice experiment, I've had enough of it now' way.

I'd just let it go if it's a one-off. Also - telling her you love her is good but saying 'I love you as much as him' might make her consider that she's in competition if she hadn't before - just say you love her and she's special, don't introduce the idea of a comparison or it being possible to love one child more. We found it helped to have a bit of time every day when we'd have 121 with DC1 so she'd always know there was a special bit where the sibling wasn't around.

The how to talk so kids listen series book on sibling rivalry is quite good!

OP, apparently I used to pinch and be generally not nice to my baby brother. I've grown up to be a perfectly normal and stable adult with a good relationship with my younger brother. Honestly, don't sweat it. Your daughter is only five, she has a lot to learn, she's only little. You're not failing as a parent. Put it behind you. Tomorrow is a new day. Keep teaching her to be gentle, model kind behaviours, you don't need harsh punishments at that age.

I hated my younger sister on sight, was a similar age gap. I never hurt her but I remember seeing her have an accident and being pleased about it.
make sure you spend time with her without the baby, easier said than done but helpful.