Private Schools being able to hold charitable status

[IdiotCreatures]

I went and looked at a building associated with a local independent school yesterday, as it's always piqued my curiosity.
The school is run by the Woodard Corporation. I looked at their books on company house yesterday.
The amount of money moving through them is ridiculous. If people want to pay for a private education, then surely the institutions should be taxed.
Apart from a small number of scholarships, the average person is not benefiting from these institutions.
In the case of Eton, as pointed out on another thread, these schools are probably leading to damage to society and definitely do not promote the idea of equality.

Well maybe their parents have a strong family background parents who instilled in them the importance of education, hard work saving money and self reliance.

Sounds like a line from a Tory manifesto

not like anyone else has similar values 🙄

£12k that’s an awful lot of money to be able to save in a year £1k a month that not attainable for the cast majority is it

*vast

Nobody is saying the children are more hardworking, parents care more, £12k a year is a lot, etc. And, as a budget holder in a private school, I can tell you we have had our budgets cut. What we’re disputing is your view of this “fair share” of privately educated children pointing to all such children being entitled and unaware of their own privilege. I daresay people who have been around these children for well over a decade have a reasonable idea of what they’re like. I’m tapping out of this now. Take care.

I never said all

it’s the playing down of privilege which is happening on this thread

that playing down plays into entitlement it’s a peculiar British trait (and a very mc train! to play down privilege of wealth

what’s actually wrong with being thankful to be in such a position and the acknowledgment that the children are privileged

*trait

state schools are having budgets cut so why shouldn’t that apply to private schools or once again should these children have privilege upon privilege

why do you think independent schools have been exempt from budget cuts? You can’t imagine that the impact that covid, inflation, and the current situation with utilities, petrol, rising food costs is having an impact on private schools?

you can dump all private school children into the state sector if you want. What will it achieve? A child with a parent who can afford additional support, activities, clubs, tutors etc will still get all that. Sure, their class size will be bigger and their teachers may not have the same photocopying budget, but they will still be teaching to the same test.

The average HOUSEHOLD income, I.e both parents, is £28,100pa.

So a household income of £60,000 is significantly wealthy. Not millionaire territory, but very privileged.

I can because we are all feeling the pinch are we not

and where have I said that private schools should close down and children dumped into state schools

I have said there shouldn’t be added privileges on top of privilege

And the reality is as a parent of a child with SEN, she isn't welcome in the local private schools.

Thankfully she has a right to support (via an EHCP) in the state school she attends

The average household income both on minimum wage is 38k now.

@Runnerbeansflower where have you got your figures from??
the ONS says that mean average household income last year was £37622. And that is disposable income, so income after all direct taxes. It also includes those who are retired and single adult households. It doesn’t look at capital which bursary applications do. So the average for a 2 adult working household of an age to have secondary school children is way more than you claim. Probably more like 60k.

I have read your 2 posts, not the rest of the thread of nearly 300. One might believe with your low to NIl contribution on your own thread that you are a goady fucker. But giving you the benefit of the doubt for now.

Where do you think many children with SEN go to school? Big fat fucking clue - independent schools, mostly small ones that are barely surviving. Sometimes paid by parents or charities, often paid by the state through placements (EHCP provision). And why do you think they attend independent schools, rather than mainstream? Again big fat easy answer - they cant cope in mainstream - large schools and class sizes of 30+ for starters. You might ask (if you were intelligent) - why are these children who cant cope with mainstream not in special need schools (thereby ensuing that they get the appropriate and suitable education that they are entitled to)? Because many were closed as part of earlier education reforms so now there are very few specialist state special need schools and the remaining special need schools are - wait for it, wait for it - independent.

Yet in my county there is state money to open grammar annexes. But apparently there was no need for a state school specialising in dyslexia. The closest dyslexia specialist school is in another county and not that good anyway. And to add insult to injury we have to put up with ignorant people such as you writing "these schools are probably leading to damage to society and definitely do not promote the idea of equality". My child with SEN NOT getting a proper education provided by the state (as every other child receives) is damaging to society and certainly is not helping with their equality. HTH

I 100% agree. But then, I'd like to see them all abolished, so...

@BungleandGeorge @justasking111 you quote average hh income of £38k as though these make private school affordable.

The average private school fees are £15k so I don't see the point? No one on average income without a massive scholarship/ bursary or family money will be able to afford half that income on average private school fees.

@spongedog yeah, the Sen points been raised a few times on the thread.

I don't think it matters how private SEN schools are taxed because the places are usually all local authority funded so tax is just the government moving money between departments.

The issue of generally abysmal state SEN care is different. But imagine how many state SEN schools they could run if they got £1bn extra by taxing private schooling in line with other services.

Do you honestly think that any of that would go to sen schools or Sen provision? Or directly to schools at all? And it wouldn't raise that because as discussed upthread, a lot of smaller schools would close within a couple of years. No fees generated, no extra tax money, just more kids in the state sector.

On the subject of SEN I was reading a review of a new life of Ernie Bevin, he didn't believe in pulling down successful institutions - we need more pragmatism and less ideology in education. The reasons so many children aren't coping with mainstream state schools need to be fixed first before we start breaking down provision that's working. And the bloody waiting times for assessments and help are the key disasters.

Welsh government would certainly funnel the money elsewhere. Rishi Sunek covid money was diverted away from businesses. Friends here have had a huge fight on their hands which lasts Three years minimum most parents give up along the way.

It was as a direct counter to the made up figures of pp. and it’s disposable income and an average across the country including single, retired, young etc households. Annoying when people make up figures to suit themselves. and someone actually working in admissions at one of these schools is told their wrong🤷‍♀️ A lot of people are funding these schools from house equity, second jobs, grandparents, inheritances. It’s amazing what can be done if school is the top priority.

@spongedog
Couldn't agree more.

Many posters are not interested in this sen issue because it's not fitting with their politics.

I have to pay to supplement dd education because our outstanding leafy primary can't teach her.
That's disadvantage right there.
That's inequality.

Luckily dd has me.
But she should not need me to get her educated.

My dd needs are not so great that she would need a specialist school she just needed the most basic tools to help her and this is what has concerned me the most really.
If I could afford private for secondary I would.

And within state school there is a strange attitude to Sen.

And parents.
It all needs to be opened up and made transparent. Too much us and them and secrey.

"2021, the average (median) real terms household income before housing costs was £539 per week (around £28,100 per year). This represents a reduction of 1.7%, or £9 per week, compared with FYE 2020. Average income after housing costs also reduced to £472 per week (around £24,600 per year)."

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/households-below-average-income-for-financial-years-ending-1995-to-2021/households-below-average-income-an-analysis-of-the-income-distribution-fye-1995-to-fye-2021#:~:text=Figure%204%20shows%20that%20in,around%20%C2%A324%2C600%20per%20year).

A couple with 2 children under 14 would be on the 50th centile if they have a disposable income of £39,400 a year. Interestingly couples without children have a much lower income on average. I wonder if benefits such as childcare tax credits account for some of the difference?

And parents with that average level of disposable income and two children could not afford private school fees for them. Although I appreciate they might be able to if grandparents are paying a fair chunk of them.