to ask for clarity of what divorce would look like

[allmixedup123]

I F(36) am married 11 years to M(41). 1 DC 7 years old. We both have similarly paid jobs - not high earners, but not struggling to make ends meet either. Marriage has been dead in the water for years - both parties at fault (neglect, alcohol, intimacy issues, insecurities), wont bore you with the details.

DH has history of super destructive emotional behavior when relationships go sour - tends to hold very long grudges, gets nasty - previously kicked out parents during fights, long drawn out fights with friends/siblings. not physically, but verbally very passive aggressive and negative, stonewalling, gaslighting etc.

I have come to the end of the line in the marriage as things stand, and something needs to change. This said, because we have a DC, before I start divorce I want to spend time do couples counseling and see if there is a way to resolve our issues.

Here is my question - I am thinking of asking DH tomorrow that before we start counseling he has to agree with me what a divorce would look like i.e. split of finances/DC time as a post nup. I am not looking to be unreasonable, but it frightens me to think how he will behave if it does not work out with me. At least at this stage, he may be more reasonable/open to the idea, if it in the context of the counseling.

Is this crazy of me to propose to him? I don't want to spend another year in therapy with him only to be going through misery again if it doesnt work. If he refuses then i think i will not do the counseling since it shows he will be nasty. So I might as well start the painful period now, sooner it ends the better.

I would greatly appreciate the advice as I will speak to DH tmrw.

AIBU???

What would be the point? Going by what you've said, it seems unlikely that he'd stick to it anyway.

If your relationship really is dead in the water and he has a history of unreasonable behaviour after a fall out, best to get your finances in order as best you can and prepare for the worst.

I thought an agreement (post-nup) can be quite useful in courts and will make it harder for my DH to be a d**k to me if it all falls apart

just feel very intimidated right now at how he might react and hence thought it might protect me/DC

Postnuptial agreements are not legally binding and as much as you’ll see websites say they’ll be ‘taken into consideration’, I would take that with a pinch of salt.

Has divorce already been mentioned? I would hesitate to jump in with practicalities of a split if I knew he was likely to get spiteful - what might be more useful would be to have couples counselling to help decide if you should stay together… couples therapy isn’t just about ‘saving’ the marriage, it can be about how to live your best lives, be the best parents you can, be honest with each other and learn how to communicate well with each other… in amongst all of that you may decide that being married to each other isnt the best way to achieve those outcomes.

A good therapist should be able to help you envision your future together or apart. And that way you can go into it not thinking ‘this could be a massive waste of my time’

If divorce does become a reality I would check out a mediation service alongside or even before getting solicitors involved

Mediation

@NoseyNellie and @Onehappymam thank you. DH is traveling away for work for the week and returns home tomorrow afternoon. I have told him I want to talk to him and I think he has a pretty good idea that it is "the talk". He knows it is coming.

The idea that it could become nasty after i waste another 6 months on this man fills me with dread. maybe I just need to draw a line under the sand as counseling with me dreading the outcome may not be too helpful.

Honestly if it hasn’t been said out loud then no matter how obvious it seems, you are still dropping a bomb… this is a massive pivotal moment. Is tomorrow afternoon the best time to do it, when he’s just finished a week at work, will likely be tired, hot and probably wanting a sit down in front of the telly with a beer and not a conversation about the end of his marriage?

I would be tempted to delay until Sat or Sunday and if possible try and prompt him to bring up the idea of separation. Pride is a massive factor in pple kicking off in my experience and if you can somehow manage to get him to a point where you can say you’ve agreed together or, even better that he can say he’s decided to end the relationship…

I fully understand that you probably just want to say “I just can’t do this anymore, I want a divorce” but I think that would be the exact point at which his barriers would go up and the fight would start.

🤷🏻‍♀️

@NoseyNellie thanks. how do i get him to think in that way? greatly appreciate any practical advice

Do you know what, I think I may have spoken without thinking it through - sorry 😳

Obviously In an ideal world you would say “I want to talk about our marriage” and he would interrupt and say “Before you do, I have to say I’m not happy, I want a divorce” - you would try and look sad but secretly do a little cheer ☺️ but I can’t think of a way of magically manoeuvring a conversation that way.

I still think counselling would be a good place to work it out/bring it up but you do sound like you’re at the end of your wick and wanting a resolution sooner rather than later.

I did some Googling and found various stuff about breaking the news, ironically one of the good ones was from a dad website:

Dad site

Sorry I couldn’t give you a better plan. Oh and clear your browser history if there’s any chance he might snoop!

Don't mention divorce if you're serious about mediation. It sends all the wrong signals.

But if you've mentally crossed the line of no return, then get organised, get a good solicitor, serve the papers and dig in.

If you think you're going into battle, better to be prepared and on the front foot vs having to react like a rabbit in the headlights.

I told him that we should start marriage counselling and that till that time we sleep in separate rooms. He is refusing to do this and wants to go straight to divorce. He is asking me to leave the home since I've decided to wreck it. I'm afraid he will change the locks if i leave the house....

What do i do/???

Are you afraid for your safety at all? That has to take priority.

If not and he’s just going to be an arse then stay, move yourself to another bedroom/the sofa. Try & leave him alone for tonight. If he gets in your face tell him its unreasonable for you to leave right now but don’t engage any more than that.

It sounds really uncomfortable but see if you can have a more sensible discussion in a day or two.

Not much to add but if you post in relationships you may get some helpful advice.

Good luck.

not afraid for safety

just horrible hostile atmosphere and he is lashing. now crying and asking why i am pretending to go for counselling when i have made my mind up.

Dont do counselling with someone who is abusive, there is nothing to be gained and it can do more harm than good. He is clearly already starting to think only of himself, so you need to do the same.

Normally I wouldn't say leave the house but for your own mental health that might be a good idea. But you must take your son with you, don't leave him there and set your H up as resident parent.

If you can move out into a rental, and stop paying for anything in the marital home. Separate yourself financially, cancel any and all joint accounts /cards etc take your name off all bills. File for divorce asap, you want to be the petitioner as then you control the timeline.

Is the house owned or rented, how much equity, what is your financial situation? Next step is to get the Form E completed by yourself and him for a financial overview and from there you can start negotiations on an equitable financial split.

Grey rock him completely, dont engage in any arguments, remember anything you do at this point could be used against you, so stay calm and factual. Document all his bad behaviour.

Find a solicitor from a personal recommendation, someone who was very happy with their work. Use them as little as possible though. Instruct them to only take calls and correspondence from his solicitor (you don't want him running up bills on your account, if he has to pay to contact yours he will think twice).

If he changes the locks you call a locksmith to let you back into your home. If he frightens or threatens you, you call the police.

Don't leave the family home

Tbf he has a point. You do sound as though you've decided divorce is the answer. If I were you I'd crack on with it.

There's no point doing marriage counselling with someone who doesn't buy into the idea of doing it. Just turning up isn't going to solve your marriage issues. He needs to be willing to work on the relationship, which he is not.

It sounds like whatever you do, he is likely to kick off if he knows you want to split. Your best bet is to engage a lawyer and start making moves to ensure you get what you're legally entitled to from the split.

Also, use the time he is away to get your ducks in a row. Gather as much paperwork as you can, especially on the financial sides of things - details of assets, pensions, etc.

Take him up on his offer of going straight to divorce. Let him think it's his idea.

Don't move out. The marriage has broken down between you. You're not to blame and don't need to be punished.

See a solicitor ASAP.