Bronze Duke of Edinburgh expedition. Sufficient training?

[anglepois]

DD will be going on her bronze DoE expedition soon. Before then they will get an hour with the PE teacher on map reading skills, but nothing else, other than a kit list. I did DoE myself, years ago, and some of DD's friends who are guides/scouts are taking a lead on meal planning etc, so she will be fine, but there will be other groups that have none of that. Aibu to think they also need to have some training on how to pitch a tent (and keep it dry in wet weather), how to use a Trangia (efficiently, when there's only one per group), the basics of coutryside ettiquette (shutting gates, avoiding herds of cows, etc), how to pack a backpack (so you don't get backache) and probably more. It's only one night, so they will survive, but the preparation and prior learning are surely meant to be part of the experience; aibu?

Will they be supervised at the camp site?
We were. I

There will be staff there. I don't know if the staff ate allowed to help them. I guess so, because if skills like tent pitching were to be assessed, they would beaking sure they are covered. (It seems "teaching to rhe test" now extends to DoE!)

*are, not ate

*be making, not beaking

You could practice the things with her beforehand maybe?

ds did his bronze this year, they had a training weekend at school - day 1 was how to pitch rents, read maps, use the stoves safely, plan their menu and route and day 2 was a local 10 mile hike.

That seemed good preparation for their expedition weekend .

Is it a practice exped?

DS does his expedition next Thursday, and they did get a day tent pitching and using trangias, but don't get to camp. But on the expedition they are only walking 12km, so just need to follow the footpath signs tbh, and will only have their food, a small first aid kit and a waterproof in their bag so no proper packing needed. I think to boil some water, no trangia skills are needed, and the tents school have use two poles so straightforward.

I think I remember my daughter doing a 'practice' expedition - where they did it (slightly different location) with the instructors talking them through tents etc

No, its the real thing. No practice.
I don't think a full-on practice is necessary, just better skills training.

Sounds like you’re going to have to help her

Outdoor Instructor/ D of E Trainer & Assessor here. This sounds incorrect and not in the spirit of the award, let alone the obvious safeguarding concerns. There are strict protocols that schools and other providers need to adhere to when running expeditions. The qualifying expedition can only go ahead with sufficient training. It must be supervised by qualified and trained staff. Schools are tempted to cut corners and pair back training due to time and money constraints. Contact the D of E award’s regulators via the main D of E website.

Im sure back in 1995 we did a full practise with camping etc.
Our big rucksacks completely full.
Carrying 1/3 or 1/2 a tent etc
Im not sure about map reading but remember being tested on the expedition.

Our son did his last year, coming out of the pandemic, so they missed out on the full training day where they were supposed to do a local day hike & then pitch tents & cook meals etc. in the school fields. All they got was a map reading session in school & a zoom call about what to pack! Then, on the 1st day, before they set off, the instructors quickly showed them how to correctly pack their rucksacks.

Luckily, our son was an experienced Scout who had done long hikes & camping before, so was able to confidently navigate & put up his tent etc. If he hadn't have been, I'm not sure we'd have let him go. It's definitely not enough preparation & also a bloody cheek that we paid full price & didn't get the full package!! It still annoys me now!!

I don’t remember doing a practice expedition when I did Bronze back in the 1970s. However, in the weeks leading up to the expedition, we did get taught how to use the kit. It wasn’t just an hour. Route planning, map and compass skills were also covered. Our camp was inspected but not supervised.

We didn’t get charged anything.

DS had
practice weekend - they did a walk with fully packed bags then camped and we picked them up after breakfast
they had several zoom sessions - 1 to go over kit, 1 about food etc and another with a video of he bloke showing them how to pack the rucksack.
they also had several sessions at school doing route cards/menus etc
his real one is in a few weeks.

So who is packing/carrying the sleeping bags, tents, stoves, plates/utensils, water bottles, sunscreen, insect cream, dry socks, gloves, hat, torch, matches, shovel etc?

This.

What you describe is shocking.
Not only from a safety and safeguarding pov but also from it being completely not in the spirit of it.
Nor is it teaching them anything.
Plus, it completely devalues what - when done properly - is an excellent scheme.

I would be contacting the school and asking to see their risk assessment as a first point of call, and maybe taking that to Senior Management and if need be to Governing Body.
I would be very worried for the safety of the dc for whom this is their first expedition.

Start with the cotton wool that she needs to be wrapped in.

You see, I’d say a practice is very necessary. It can be combined with training- high staff ratio lots of help.

Straight into the assessment with no practice or training is madness. Either they will fail or they will get loads of help and then get a ‘pass’ they haven’t earned. What a waste of everyone’s time!

I’ve remembered that we did actually do a practice in the 1970s. Practice in the Lakes and real thing in the Peaks.

I thought they had to do a practice expedition before the assessed one? Certainly all the schools in my area do it this way - and for the silver award (even if Bronze has already been done).
My DD had several afterschool sessions on map reading, what equipment they would need, first aid and route planning. They had a full day practicing tent pitching, cooking and writing out their route cards. They then did a full 2 day practice weekend, before the final assessed one.