To cancel a flooring order and lose big deposit over potential future health worries?

[ninesky]

I recently ordered some LTV (similar to Karndean) and paid a deposit. Since then, I've spent many hours reading about the potential health concerns around LVT, and I'm worried that exposure to VOCs, PVC and plasticisers now could have an impact on my kids' health in the future, as so much is still unknown about the long-term affect of plastics and the newer phthalate-free plasticers on human health. I'm considering cancelling the order (and probably losing the deposit) to buy Marmoleum (a type of linoleum) instead, as it's made of natural materials and there are no health worries. But I don't like the look of it as much, my husband will not be happy with me for wasting the deposit money. Throwing away thousands of pounds is a big decision.

My husband thinks that there are lots of 'unhealthy' things all around us, so it's pointless worrying about a plastic floor. He also thinks that if a product is widely available, then it's safe, but I know it's really not as simple as that (for example, formaldehyde being found in laminate in America), and it can take years for dangers to come to light - especially with chemicals in plastics. It's hard to know how much of a risk there really is. There is a lot of advice online to avoid PVC where possible.

(Side note: because my doors are installed to be flush with the floor for LVT, I can't have tiles or wood/laminate, as they would be too thick, and I also have underfloor heating to consider, so linoleum seems to be the only alternative as it's a few mm thick like LVT.)

So my choice is waste a lot of money, seriously piss-off my husband and the flooring shop, and have a floor I probably won't like the look of as much but feel is healthier - or go with a floor I like the look of more and won't waste money, but will potentially cause worry about my kids' health. I need to make a decision asap and I'm driving myself nuts going round in circles unable to figure out what to do. I am a big worrier, and I don't know how justified my health worries are in this instance. A friend has just been diagnosed with cancer, which means I'm feeling extra sensitive about risk and prevention. Am I being unreasonable?

Yes, I think you have gone down an anxiety rabbit hole. Ventilate the room well for a while after it's been laid and that will get rid of the most volatile VOCs.

Everything you smell "plastic" it's actually VOCs you are smelling. Your car is full of them: that oily film you get on the inside of your windscreen is partly caused by vocs depositing on their from the dashboard (and what the "new car smell" is mostly made up of). Your sofa, the paint on your walls, new carpet... seriously you don't need to worry about your floor

Thanks for your reply, MaJoady. I totally see your point, and this is how my husband feels too - that potentially harmful things are everywhere and can't be avoided. HOwever, I am generally really careful with what I buy, such as a 'natural' mattress made of hemp rather than foam etc, and cosmetics and cleaning products with natural ingredients rather than synthetic fragrance, etc etc. My car is so old that I don't think there is any hardly any off-gassing inside any more, unless you count the gas released by decoposing crumbs😂
My concern about the new flooring is that it's going to be most of the downstairs, including the kids' play area, so there will be a lot of area to potentially slowly off-gas over years.
You are 100% right that I have gone down an anxiety rabbit hole. When I get like this it's hard for me to tell if I'm being very OTT.

You will find similar findings regarding many, many everyday items though from nail polish, right down the fabric conditioner etc.

I do think you are being unreasonable. It is not as if you’ll be eating dinner off the new flooring.

Sorry about your friend.

I totally get "the fear" over something like this, but I think that actually this can be managed. VOC are by nature volatile (!) so per PP, can be managed through ventilation for the first couple of weeks when possible. Also, in agreement eith PP and your DH pretty much everything these days has VOCS and similar - sofa, carpet, car, paints, all sorts. In general, good ventilation is always a good idea (not just for VOC), and you can also get air purifiers with carbon filters which would possibly be a better use of money than a lost deposit, as it would also help with other sources of VOC in the home.

It's also worth noting the safety thresholds for use in domestic settings are very different in the States, so articles you've seen from America are potentially for products you can't even buy here!!

I can understand your concerns but I'm with your husband on this. You can't police every floor your children walk on for ever.

Natural does not mean safe. Belladonna was once used as a cosmetic, as was lead. Both natural, both unsafe.

you can also get air purifiers with carbon filters which would possibly be a better use of money than a lost deposit, as it would also help with other sources of VOC in the home

This is what I was going to suggest, added bonus that they also reduce dust! I’m broke but part of my savings is earmarked for a couple of these for the dust benefits rather than health concerns though.

I wouldn’t lay Lino. I’ve had it two houses, and it discoloured badly over heating pipes in the floor. It also shrinks in direct sunlight, especially if you have tiles. The first lot was better, more hard wearing and lasting than the second,,later, lot.

I liked the look of it, more ‘natural’ than vinyl or ceramic ( in those days, now they can be fab). It is very warm underfoot in a bathroom or anywhere else where you go barefoot. Cleaning was okay. On the whole, though, I wouldn’t have it again, and in other houses we have not.

frankly I think you are being a bit OTT about the likelihood of the flooring you have chosen killing you, you are more likely to slip out it and break your neck than die as a result of your floor fuming you to death. Bon courage!

I say this with kindness, this amount of worry is a lot and not normal. Do you often get this worried over things?

Tell your kids to not lick the floor (which I hope is a rule regardless) and you'll be fine.

We have LVT all over our downstairs, never given it a thought to be totally honest.

LVT is fine, better than carpet- all those fibres and dust mites.

If your DC was lying on the floor all day licking it I may pause, but generally I'd say go for it.

There are many things to worry about- some of them are worth avoiding, and others not so much.

LTV or LVT , who knows?

LVT , installed in practically every building I've worked in as flooring contractors as well as other leisure/social places..
Speak to Karndean they have a lovely sales team who can possibly help by sending over literature or maybe go for an engineered timber? Once the lvt is prepped thr floor levels cant be that different? Speak to your installers, they would rather you be happy as well..

Where are the articles about Vocs from? As pp the VOC limits are much more stringent in the UK than the US, so US articles won't be relevant. Likewise older information may not reference correct levels as I believe maximum levels have been reduced over time.

When I was looking two years ago I found a lot of negative information about laminate and VOCs but when I dug into it they simply weren't relevant to modern laminate in the UK. For what it's worth I did go with laminate and haven't regretted it. There was a slight smell for a few hours, but it had gone by next day.

Once they are school age they will spend far more hours a day at school, activities and other peoples houses. Are you going to police the nature of the flooring in every place your children might be? Of course you won’t. That answers your question.

Think about every space your kids will be in going forward - school, play spaces, shops, friends houses and cars etc etc. you cannot police this going forward. You'd be better off addressing your anxiety long term I think. It doesn't sound healthy worrying this much.

Also Google has a lot to answer for. You can pretty much find any 'research' to back your point of view from f you go looking for it. Worth remembering.

I think that if you are going to be constantly worried about it, you should bite the bullet and cancel the order. Suggestions not to lick it or to keep the windows open for a few weeks don't address your concerns. I've changed my mind about purchases for similar reasons in the past. It's about your peace of mind at the end of the day.

I'm sorry this is the most bonkers thing ever you have it done and vent the room ffs

This was also my train of thought OP but I was aware of this before choosing flooring so I have gone with engineered wood instead, and even though we're getting underfloor heating too our builders will just have to make sure it all fits.
But I do suffer from extreme anxiety which I'm in treatment for so I don't know what to suggest to you now, apart from getting help for yourself and listening to the good advice above

Thank you, that's interesting to know about lino. Doesn't sound to promising as the main room it's for has underfloor heating and a lot of direct sunlight 😩

I'm specifically worried about my kids' health being affected at some point in their lives by being exposed to the plasticiser leaching into dust and the air, which apparently happens as it's not chemically bonded to the PVC.

I'm sure you're right. Thing is, I try to avoid stuff like that, so PVC flooring was a silly, uncharacteristic choice for me 😩given how careful I normally am.

I'm sure you're right. Thing is, I try to avoid stuff like that, so PVC flooring was a silly, uncharacteristic choice for me 😩given how careful I normally am.

Thanks for the air filter suggestion, that's a good idea.

As pp have said, the standards as different in this country.
I randomly subscribe to a couple of US consumer sites and the number of recalls and issues over foods and health and safety concerns in staggering. They have very poor trading standards in comparison to us.

Yes, I do worry a lot about a lot of things. My husband is very laid back, almost my opposite, and my friends too, so it's hard for me to gauge how much worry is unhealthy and how much is just personality difference. Perhaps I should look at getting some help as it does affect my quality of life.

Thanks, but unfortunately I can't have engineered wood as there's only 8mm between the concrete screed level and the top of my sliding door track - just not enough depth.
The Karndean website is quite helpful, has more information than most. The brand I ordered was Project Floors.