To think the RMT strike will actually push network rail etc to automate more, not less?

[InChocolateWeTrust]

If I was the management of the railway network today, I'd be looking for ways to reduce my reliance on people who might strike, instead of this pushing me to stop plans to automate, I'd be accelerating them. AIBU to think the RMT have been a bit short sighted here?

Well this is one of the reasons they go on strike because they are terrified of losing their relevance. For example the dispute over guards opening doors on trains. If a guard's role is safety critical, it is important and comparatively well paid. If you take away the safety critical role it becomes a customer service role, less well paid and they are potentially less likely to be union members as they could get a customer service role anywhere.

The government wants to close most ticket offices (which I am against as you can't do everything online) so prepare for another wave of strikes, even if people are deployed and not made redundant.

But it just won't work. Look at lift operators. They largely don't exist any more and that was in many ways a similar role. All their strikes achieved nothing

If I was the RMT I'd be focussing on getting massive redundancy settlements for staff while they still have any relevance at all to bargain with. Plus I'd be arguing for employer funded training programs so that people can upskill to fill new roles relating to automation, as the better paud new roles created will be around managing, designing and maintaining those systems.

The sooner they automate the better.

I'm with @InChocolateWeTrust , this all seems a bit Luddite.

Also the strikes simply worsen the financial position of the employer, making them even more desperate to cut costs.

The RMT might "win" in the very short term by delaying changes a tiny bit but it will be at the expense of actually partnering the business to achieve sustainable long term outcomes for their members.

Totally agree with you, InChocolateWeTrust, but this is Mumsnet, and if you don't speak of the RMT in hushed and grateful tones, and elevate Mick Lynch to a God like creature who could not possibly make an error, then you are against ALL workers and their rights!

None of the recent rail strikes have been about pay, they are 100% about automation and future job losses. DLR has been automated since the late 80s, I'm surprised automated trains are not more widespread by now.

Due to being unable to get pickers, some farmers have turned to droids which can plant, weed and know precisely where every single seed was sowed. It doesn't get tired nor does its attention span wane. People are still needed, but fewer people will be required than before.

If its starting to make inroads into farming, it'll be a matter of time before droids and other automated systems will appear in the railway industry.

The future will increasingly be one where STEM subjects are a must. Low paid, manual work will gradually give way to the automation revolution.

I wouldn't be surprised if railway bosses will speed this process up.

Time to throw shoes at the machines

The Luddites faced starvation pretty much overnight after years of training and hard work. There were no benefits in those days.

Speaking personally, I feel safer when travelling by rail if there are staff present.

I can see why they are fighting against automation.

More jobs becoming redundant through automation could lead to greater productivity and a better life for ordinary people, but the more likely scenario is it just leads to greater profits for shareholders and poverty for ordinary people.

If you think automation will leader to lower train fares for you, you're a moron.

Of course the employer will wish to eradicate people - or at least people with any power to counter theirs, and the government will try to help.
All these pesky workers wanting a job and a decent wage won't pay for Sir Bufton Tufton's dividend yeilds.

The RMT have put up a very good fight over the last few decades, but they are finally losing their power.

WFH means their strikes have much less impact than they used to. There are also fewer people travelling by train compared to before the pandemic.

If reports are right, the current framework needs 9 people to replace a simple electrical point, which would be done by 1 or 2 in any other industrial setting. The RMT are also understandably opposing any new automation of the track checking equipment, even when it is far superior at picking up faults to humans - but that position can't be sustained for much longer.

For most governments this strike would be a problem, for Boris it is a gift. It avoids him having to talk about parties and no confidence votes. I hope he and Grant Shapps actually follow through and push through the reforms. In the long run it will make our railways cheaper and safer.

@ALoadOfCodswallop yep the DLR is the perfect example. It’s totally possible to do and l say bring it on. I was chatting to a retired tubs driver recently and it’s coming. I can’t wait

I took a train yesterday and saw more staff than I normally see as ticket inspector came along the train accompanied by a security guard. I haven’t seen a ticket inspector on that line for about 20 years!

I agree - the strikes are largely toothless and they are digging their own grave as people will just reduce their reliance on the trains by WFH, virtual meetings etc, especially business travel where the money is. They are not causing the chaos they intended they are signing their own career death warrants, which is sad. Progress is inevitable

In the long run it will make our railways cheaper and safer.

😂

I'd quite like to hear the RMTs versions of the 9 people and their apparent opposition to automation rather than relying on crap from papers that have form for lies and take particular pleasure in lying about Trade Unions.

Also the strikes simply worsen the financial position of the employer, making them even more desperate to cut costs.

I had to travel by train yesterday. I was dreading it, but Euston station was dead, my train nearly empty as was virtually every train we passed.

These strikes will just compound the issues cause by covid, that is less people needing to commute or travel by train. If that happens services will have to be cut and with it less staff will be needed.

The average salary on TFL is £30k odd. They deserve an increase to reflect the current inflation so that they can feed their children and pay their rent/mortgage surely? Tory voters obviously won't agree.

I think when they had a strike arguing about who is going to close the F-ing doors, that said it all for me.

Until someone gets dragged under a train because the driver has too much to focus on...

If reports are right, the current framework needs 9 people to replace a simple electrical point, which would be done by 1 or 2 in any other industrial setting.

@LargeDeviation the media reports are bollocks. If there is a fault with something at a station, it is logged with the appropriate contractor (often Integral) who will send a man in a van. For alterations (such as when they replaced the messroom gas oven with an electric one) a contractor will get the job and obviously it's in their interest to quote as cheaply as possible.

Out on the track, PWay will often work in pairs for monthly patrolling (lone working trackside is obviously a risk). Doing work on or near the line requires a safe system of work which if the line is open to traffic means a chain of lookouts, but - like on trunk roads - Red Zone Working is rare now, instead a line block will be requested. S&T technicians usually work alone.

In case anyone was wondering about the whole Kings Cross/Euston lack of cross-working, here's a summary of why. Pre-nationalisation the lines were run by entirely different companies, those borders carried on into BR and still persist in Network Rail. So the teams working in such close geographical proximity are managed by entirely different divisions of Network Rail. On top of that, each station will have been remodelled/resignalled at different points in history, so equipment such as point machines and axle counters may be entirely different. For that reason you can't just send S&T from Euston to fix a points failure at Kings Cross without familiarising them with the layout there (so that they know where to find the faulty set), and actually teaching them how to repair the specific type of motor. I'm sure that RMT would have no objection to Network Rail doing things properly and training staff to cross-cover but of course training costs money...