Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

@Fairisleflora

Things like the ability to work fully remotely or at least flexibly and giving lots of holidays are what are attracting interest.

Right

So not shit conditions

I did. I have two main employments in my working life, a few shorter jobs early on. The first was 20 odd years in local govt and then 20 odd years in a private company. It wasn't actually pension or pay or security that made me change. I had 4 children, one a 10 day old baby, when we finally got a diagnosis of my husband's condition following an accident that caused massive damage due to an undiagnosed condition he'd had from birth. We found out he wasn't going to get better, would probably get much worse. I needed to go back to work after maternity leave and I needed flexibility that I just couldn't have in my public sector job.

Now at nearly 70 I would have a better pension if I'd stayed in the public sector but I couldn't so no point worrying. It was balanced up by the better pay and more flexibility in the private sector job. Swings and roundabouts. You have to make decisions and that was mine.

According to research in the New Statesman: Public sector wages are 4.4% lower in real terms than in 2010

The situation we are in is not sustainable. People need to feel there is progress.

We need a thriving public sector, obviously. What we have now is a public sector on life support.

I don't know anyone in the private sector that got less that 5% and some as much as 30%

I'm not seeing the shit pay and shit conditions you describe for those who are striking. So no, not self explanatory. Do feel free to explain

Sorry, I meant to add the shit pensions too. When I was in the private sector my employer contributed a whopping 3% a year.

@chiffchaffchiff

I wasn't discussing people who are striking

I dont know anything about the rail strikes

I don't know anyone in the public sector who got less than 19%.

Waves, hello. Me. I got 1.5%

I got 0.5% - "key worker" too.

Also, taxpayer. Public sector workers pay tax just like everyone else.

As many people have said, MPs have given themselves pay rise after pay rise, plus flat decorations, still tax funded booze and food, five star hotels or second flats. Public workers have kept and continue to keep UK running, give us some of those benefits or a realisic payrise.

Rolls Royce just offered its employees a one off payment of 2k to help with the cost of living crisis plus a 4% wage increase. They turned it down. Meanwhile in the public sector we have been offered 1.8% which equates to around £30 per month net for me. Well it would if they hadn’t put up NI so it actually means a £10 month net increase on last year. Oh and they are going to get rid of 1/20 of us so where’s this fabled public sector job security then?

Sorry that should read 1/5

My private final salary pension went up by just 5% which was the maximum it can go up by.

Yes, but what about those who have done brilliantly out of the pandemic- like the food industry, private aviation, the gaming industry, big pharmaceutical and the tech Industry?

All those industries are now offering over the odds in pay and conditions. So people will move there.

And that is fine if people are moving from bar work to game design. I’m sure we can cope with a shortage of bar workers. But it would be absolutely devastating for us all of the key workers who slogged away during the pandemic decided to switch to food packing instead.

Surely you can see that some sectors are more vital than others? Unless you want people to start dying on ambulances in their droves again. We aren’t far off that point.

Inflation pressures are global at the moment. What we do nationally is a fairly minor contribution to a global trend. Low pay increases won’t stop inflation, and rises below inflation are effectively a pay cut. Anything below inflation is acting as a brake on economic growth. If business costs are going up at the rate of inflation, and product prices are going up at the rate of inflation, but people have less money to spend then many businesses are going to lose money because they’re going to sell less product.

What is really needed is a plan to grow the economy in a sustainable way. We should be investing money hugely in sustainable energy and meat alternatives, which will then protect us against the global inflationary pressures. I think if the government had a real plan to improve things in the future, that would help.

I know lots of single parent teachers earning near the bottom of the pay scale, and they just cannot afford what amounts to a ten percent pay cut. I’m sure it’s the same for nurses. People aren’t being selfish, they’re wanting to put food on the table, like everyone else. Yes, some of us earn more, but I personally think I am seriously underpaid relative to the private sector given my field of expertise, skill set, etc. Had I taken my degree in literally any other direction, I would be earning considerably more than I am (First in maths and computer science from a Russell group, salary circa £40,000 after 20 years in post, working 70 hours per week for large chunks of those 20 years) I think I’m bloody excellent value for money.

Don't be fooled by anyone saying there's no money. What there is is no will.

Is there any official data on this?

Crossoclock there's plenty. This is well known

ifs.org.uk/publications/15552

What the above graphic shows is that everyone lost out post crash, but that teachers continued to lose out in the following years. Whereas private sector earnings have roughly returned to pre crash levels in real terms, teachers are now much lower.

Another bit that's missed in public vs private sector pay arguments is that there's no real room for advancement or pay increase in the NHS unless changing bands (even then, not much of a difference if you're at the top of one band and moving to the next, and that too is a slow stepwise change).

I made my increment last month, a whopping £40 per month after tax (including arrears from the prior month as my trust award the increment the month following). That means my salary has gone up ca £30 per month with no possibility of change for the next three years. That's right, three years, how can I stretch my pence any more? What will I do when winter comes and my energy bills treble?

Private sector I reckon can negotiate wages and/or has more mobility within the field? I'm tied to my banding no matter where I go as it's part of my NHS service. Absolute rubbish.

Pension schemes are part of the overall package and are significant for public sector workers.

Perhaps they should say they'll forego their pensions for a pay increase if its so irrelevant?

Yet I know plenty who have been surviving with 1 to 2% increases in the private sector.

Just because its private doesn't automatically equal great pay rises.

This

I think there are so many roles that are essential like nursing, that are struggling that they are fighting a losing battle. Some of them were slogging their guts out during covid being spat on, coughed on, assaults on staff increasing, enforcing bonkers laws that kept changing and being judged for said laws, etc., and not getting any increase. Some cant even strike for it either.
So many that need the pay they deserve. I don't even know where to start in trying to figure out how it would work in reality.