Page 16 | Tradesman chasing for payment

CharlesIsQueensHorcrux · 2022-06-19T10:24:31+00:00

Hi - I had a tradesman in last week, finished Friday & invoiced Friday night with email and message. Since then has messaged another five times chasing me! By the way I wasn’t ignoring him I messaged back saying I was out but would deal. Is it me or is he unreasonable to chase me all weekend for an invoice issued on Friday night? I was happy with the work but not sure now I would use him again as I feel a bit ick like there’s a suggestion I wouldn’t pay or something. Aibu?

GCRich · 19/06/2022 16:15

Hurstlandshome · 19/06/2022 16:04

So he hasn't hounded you at all, has he? He's sent multiple texts/emails because you failed to pay on day 1, sent partial payment on day 2, and the final amount on day 3.

Totally wrong to have not paid the full amount on Friday, and then went on to not manage his expectations around the other payment issues.

The only thing you have done right in all this is take the criticism on the chin. Which is something.

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This tradesman must surely know that large payments from new customers don't get paid immediately due to banking restrictions. He should also be well used to people who are out on a friday night and hungover or working on saturday so payment takes at least 36 hours.

Did this tradesman confirm payment terms prior to doing the job? Did he provide payment details in advance so at the least the payment details could have been set up earlier? Did he bother to bring a card reader if immediate payment is so important to him?

coffeecupsandfairylights · 19/06/2022 16:18

LetitiaLeghorn · 19/06/2022 16:10

I agree. Do people think Tesco pay as soon as they receive their goods? I'd think a bagnk transfer from Tesco within two weeks would be a bloody miracle.

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Tesco's suppliers are free to set whatever payment terms they like - maybe they're happy for payment to take 2-3 weeks - it's irrelevant to the situation.

Just as it's irrelevant that some are happy for invoices to be paid within 30 days - if someone asks for immediate payment, the decent thing to do is make sure they're paid on time as per the terms of the invoice.

IMO it's just basic decency to pay what you owe without making people wait.

GCRich · 19/06/2022 16:19

liveforsummer · 19/06/2022 15:58

This. As an under-20-word summary, you've nailed it.

Except it didn't as invoice cleat said payment within a day. Monday from Friday is not within a day

I am not a contract lawyer, but I strongly suspect that for 24 hour payment terms to be enforceable you need to make them clear BEFORE taking on the job, not when you invoice. For all he knows OP doesn't even have internet banking.

sunglassesonthetable · 19/06/2022 16:19

Good for you 👌

so back to the first question why do trades get to have their invoices paid immediately or it kicks off?

Tbh if you have a reoccurring arrangement ( which i presume you do as a dog walker ) I think that's different again. I pay my dog walker same time every month.

TheDoveFromAboveCooCoo · 19/06/2022 16:21

liveforsummer · 19/06/2022 16:15

In the situation in question invoice guy knew OP wasn't sleeping or driving as she took the time to respond, just didn't take the time to pay.

That was in response to another poster being pedantic - not the OP.

Blowyourowntrumpet · 19/06/2022 16:21

I had some work done recently and paid him online while he was packing up his stuff. YABU

liveforsummer · 19/06/2022 16:22

Maybe not enforceable but common decency to do as requested when you do indeed have the means to do so. OP does have internet banking and could have taken the time on arrival home on Friday but chose not to.

PleaseGoDontGoAgain · 19/06/2022 16:22

There's not a suggestion you wouldn't pay, you haven't paid. It's factual, you haven't paid.

It's already been said that you wouldn't leave a restaurant without paying and expect them to trust that you would when you could be bothered to.

sunglassesonthetable · 19/06/2022 16:22

I am not a contract lawyer, but I strongly suspect that for 24 hour payment terms to be enforceable you need to make them clear BEFORE taking on the job, not when you invoice. For all he knows OP doesn't even have internet banking.

Let's face it, to email 5 times in 24hrs he had financial issues.

GCRich · 19/06/2022 16:23

coffeecupsandfairylights · 19/06/2022 16:08

Why do trades get to be paid instantly or it's trouble.

Because when you're self-employed, you get to set your own T&C's - be that payment in advance, payment upon completion, or payment within 48 hours, 14 days or three years.

I require payment within 24h of completion. If customers aren't happy with that, they're free to find another dog walker who is more relaxed about payment, but I have better things to do than spend my free time chasing up payment from people who just can't be arsed to pay me on time.

Luckily in nearly three years of business, I've only had one client who repeatedly paid late - so, as per my contract, I messaged her to say that all walks were suspended until her account was up to date. Funnily enough, she found the time to pay me then 😉she also never paid late again!

However, all my other customers respect me and what I do, and have the common decency to pay me on time.

Where did OP confirm that 24 hour payment was confirmed in Ts and Cs in advance of the job being done?

coffeecupsandfairylights · 19/06/2022 16:23

sunglassesonthetable · 19/06/2022 16:19

Good for you 👌

so back to the first question why do trades get to have their invoices paid immediately or it kicks off?

Tbh if you have a reoccurring arrangement ( which i presume you do as a dog walker ) I think that's different again. I pay my dog walker same time every month.

Because those are the terms they choose to work by as a self-employed worker. If you don't like them, you're free to find another tradesperson who doesn't mind waiting for payment.

You pay your dog walker monthly as I assume you're both happy with that arrangement, whereas I wouldn't allow my clients to pay me monthly (unless in advance) as it means if they fail to pay me for whatever reason, I've done a months' work for nothing.

If my potential clients aren't happy with that, they can go find another dog walker, but they can't just decide to pay me whenever they fancy AND keep me on as their dog walker.

coffeecupsandfairylights · 19/06/2022 16:24

GCRich · 19/06/2022 16:23

Where did OP confirm that 24 hour payment was confirmed in Ts and Cs in advance of the job being done?

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It doesn't matter IMO.

If you know when a job is due to finish and you know it costs £500, you make sure you have the means to pay that £500 on the day the job is due.

LetitiaLeghorn · 19/06/2022 16:24

SamMil · 19/06/2022 16:10

This is one of those threads where I feel like mumsnet is an entirely different world to real life. I've never heard of anyone paying an invoice before the tradesperson leaves the building. Standard invoice terms are 30 days, unless otherwise specified.

I don't think next working day is unreasonable at all (and OP has paid earlier than that).

There's a poster on here who said the tradesman should have been paid in advance! I just can't get my head around paying someone when they haven't even turned up yet.
In my experience tradesman offer a series of challenges. First to get them to show up for a quote. Then to get them to show up at an arranged time to actually do the job. Then to get them to complete it without there being a snag which means they have to come back. Then getting them to return to rectify any mistakes they've made without them trying to charge more.
Simple jobs I'll pay on the day. More complex things, no, they'll have to wait until I've checked everything is OK because although everyone on here only has ever known honest people, in my experience once they have the money, getting them to actually return is a pretty thankless task.

AchatAVendre · 19/06/2022 16:26

GCRich · 19/06/2022 16:19

I am not a contract lawyer, but I strongly suspect that for 24 hour payment terms to be enforceable you need to make them clear BEFORE taking on the job, not when you invoice. For all he knows OP doesn't even have internet banking.

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Its a good job you're not a contract lawyer then, because by then time the court date had come round to enforce payment of any such term, payment would long since have been implied.

How on earth would you enforce a 24 hour payment term anyway? You would have to prove losses that could be reasonably known to the customer had been incurred to win any damages. Which in a small residential contract, as opposed to the industrial type contracts some on here are discussing, would be highly unlikely.

I am sure the OP made sure to get a written quotation on headed paper though, so she can refer to it for the payment terms. It wouldn't be a cash in hand job or anything, where you would normally expect payment on completion now would it?

LetitiaLeghorn · 19/06/2022 16:28

PleaseGoDontGoAgain · 19/06/2022 16:22

There's not a suggestion you wouldn't pay, you haven't paid. It's factual, you haven't paid.

It's already been said that you wouldn't leave a restaurant without paying and expect them to trust that you would when you could be bothered to.

@PleaseGoDontGoAgain
There's not a suggestion you wouldn't pay, you haven't paid. It's factual, you haven't paid.

Er, yes she has.

sunglassesonthetable · 19/06/2022 16:29

Because those are the terms they choose to work by as a self-employed worker. If you don't like them, you're free to find another tradesperson who doesn't mind waiting for payment.

I don't think there were any T&Cs in advance, which presumably you give to your customers as you mentioned.

They were on the invoice so the OP wasn't "free to find another tradesman" as job was done.

I'm on here to argue that Mon payment for Fri Invoice is fine and I still do think that.

Not that I've EVER had an invoice paid that quickly.

GCRich · 19/06/2022 16:29

sunglassesonthetable · 19/06/2022 16:22

I am not a contract lawyer, but I strongly suspect that for 24 hour payment terms to be enforceable you need to make them clear BEFORE taking on the job, not when you invoice. For all he knows OP doesn't even have internet banking.

Let's face it, to email 5 times in 24hrs he had financial issues.

If I had employed him, and I was unimpressed with the job or pissed off at being harrassed I might use his clear desperation to get the price down.

20% discount and I will pay now, otherwise I'll pay when the small claims court advise me of the hearing date. Bye!

To be clear I would only do that BECAUSE of a poor job or I felt I had been harrassed. I would not do it simply because I thought I could.

LongPath · 19/06/2022 16:29

AchatAVendre · 19/06/2022 16:26

Its a good job you're not a contract lawyer then, because by then time the court date had come round to enforce payment of any such term, payment would long since have been implied.

How on earth would you enforce a 24 hour payment term anyway? You would have to prove losses that could be reasonably known to the customer had been incurred to win any damages. Which in a small residential contract, as opposed to the industrial type contracts some on here are discussing, would be highly unlikely.

I am sure the OP made sure to get a written quotation on headed paper though, so she can refer to it for the payment terms. It wouldn't be a cash in hand job or anything, where you would normally expect payment on completion now would it?

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I don't think any contract lawyer is going to be interested in a case where there invoice was paid a day or two late 😆

liveforsummer · 19/06/2022 16:30

Where did OP confirm that 24 hour payment was confirmed in Ts and Cs in advance of the job being done?

People shouldn't need to refer to terms and conditions or have to try to enforce contracts legally in order to be paid when requested , where someone has the means and ability to do so they should just do it. Be a bit prepared if you don't have internet banking or unreliable internet to the point you might have access for an entire weekend and withdraw cash. I. The unlikely event you truly can't manage any of those options then obviously that's tough luck and they have to wait but it's not the case here

Carreterra · 19/06/2022 16:31

@Noname99
You say materials and petrol cost a fortune at the moment, I was charged £1300 recently by a plumber for replacement of a toilet and cistern, new chipboard floor in the bathroom and vinyl floor tiles, very small 6 x 7 bathroom, toilet and cistern £170.00 from Wickes, vinyl flooring £36.00 per square meter from Wickes, and the firm is local, just 4 miles away, so i feel completely ripped off. I rang 2 other plumbers for quotes, but one was booked up until August and the other did not get back to me. After a bathroom leak I was desperate, and the work carried out was not exceptional, just adequate. I would have made a complete mess if I had tried myself, just not practical, but pig sick I had to pay such an extortionate amount for a simple job, there are some bastards who take advantage out there.

GCRich · 19/06/2022 16:31

AchatAVendre · 19/06/2022 16:26

Its a good job you're not a contract lawyer then, because by then time the court date had come round to enforce payment of any such term, payment would long since have been implied.

How on earth would you enforce a 24 hour payment term anyway? You would have to prove losses that could be reasonably known to the customer had been incurred to win any damages. Which in a small residential contract, as opposed to the industrial type contracts some on here are discussing, would be highly unlikely.

I am sure the OP made sure to get a written quotation on headed paper though, so she can refer to it for the payment terms. It wouldn't be a cash in hand job or anything, where you would normally expect payment on completion now would it?

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Seems unlikely to have been a cash in hand job as the bloke invoiced after leaving the premises.

minidancer · 19/06/2022 16:32

Pay him! So many people don't pay trades people they just get sick of it. They've out laid money for materials so are already out of pocket. It takes seconds to pay, you are out of order!

GCRich · 19/06/2022 16:33

liveforsummer · 19/06/2022 16:30

Where did OP confirm that 24 hour payment was confirmed in Ts and Cs in advance of the job being done?

People shouldn't need to refer to terms and conditions or have to try to enforce contracts legally in order to be paid when requested , where someone has the means and ability to do so they should just do it. Be a bit prepared if you don't have internet banking or unreliable internet to the point you might have access for an entire weekend and withdraw cash. I. The unlikely event you truly can't manage any of those options then obviously that's tough luck and they have to wait but it's not the case here

No, people should apply common sense and common courtesy and assume that decent customers will pay within 2 or 3 days but might not be able to pay immediately for numerous reasons!

sunglassesonthetable · 19/06/2022 16:33

No, people should apply common sense and common courtesy and assume that decent customers will pay within 2 or 3 days but might not be able to pay immediately for numerous reasons!

GCRich · 19/06/2022 16:37

A bit of an irrelevant tangent, but I once employed builders to refurbish an entire house top to bottom. It was a two month job. I paid for kitchen and bathroom fittings and tiles, builders paid for all other materials. I did not give the builders a penny until two weeks after they had completed the work. They never once complained or chased me because I paid within the time-frame that was agreed before the start of the job. What time-frame did OP's tradesman agree for payment before the job was started?