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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask when interest rates will likely go down?

675 replies

AnxietyLevelMax · 17/06/2022 23:02

We are close to remortgaging for the first time. Long long time ago i was happy and excited thinking we will be paying less by £200 min per month. Right now our rate would change. We still have 5 more months before we can remortgage so we can end up paying even more than now.

how long do u think it will all last?

i dont know how we are going to do that, we cant save anything now because we are paying debts, childcare is expensive as hell, everything is expensive, we barely make it month to month paying debts off but it will still take us 1.5-2 yrs min. We have no financial cushion. I am worried as hell, cant sleep worrying if something happens we dont have any extra money.

OP posts:
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lovehawaii · 23/07/2022 20:59

@raincloud we will have no choice i guess , so i am planning to pay off all credit cards debt in next two years and then three years will be paying off £500 pm on mortgage extra . We are planning to have no loan or cc when the fixed rate end to survive this . its worrying

eekyeeky · 23/07/2022 21:31

"Normal" rates are around 6%

but house prices are far from normal

GertieGumboyle · 23/07/2022 21:38

OP - leaving aside interest rates and re-mortgaging, I think it's a mistake to cancel life insurance so long as you have the mortgage. Awful things can happen (though I hope they don't), and you really do need a guarantee that your mortgage will be paid come what may.

I'd cut every other conceivable cost. My phone costs £4 per month (not a smartphone - I don't need one. Do you?) I pay for a TV licence, because the DC watch iPlayer, but don't pay for any other TV. No other 'luxuries' at all. I'd put life insurance ahead of all of those.

rainingsnoring · 23/07/2022 23:13

eekyeeky · 23/07/2022 20:31

Many older people relied on interest for income, and I can assure you the low interest rates haven't done them any favours.

Young people would definitely benefit from higher rates to help save a deposit...

They possibly may but they haven't in the last 13 years.
I haven't noticed the banks hiking the interest on savings accounts so far. Have you?

eekyeeky · 23/07/2022 23:14

that was my point...

rainingsnoring · 23/07/2022 23:18

@RainCloud - 'normal' rates might be around 6% in a healthy economy without high inflation. They have been reduced to negative levels because the whole pack of cards survives on ever increasing debt and the UK economy has become heavily reliant increasing house prices, that and selling off our infrastructure. Increasing the rates to 6% at this stage would cause a cascade of defaults.

rainingsnoring · 23/07/2022 23:19

eekyeeky · 23/07/2022 23:14

that was my point...

I see, sorry!

lot123 · 24/07/2022 07:34

I haven't noticed the banks hiking the interest on savings accounts so far. Have you?

Yes, a number of times this year. Has yours not? I'm up to 1.85% on for 30 days' notice now and my instant access savings accounts are around 1% higher than last year (around 1.4-1.5%).

AllThatFancyPaintsAsFair · 24/07/2022 08:37

rainingsnoring · 23/07/2022 23:13

They possibly may but they haven't in the last 13 years.
I haven't noticed the banks hiking the interest on savings accounts so far. Have you?

Where are you looking, Savings rates have shot up recently, not to historic highs but you can get over 3% for some fixes now

rainingsnoring · 24/07/2022 08:42

@lot123 @AllThatFancyPaintsAsFair - that remark was made in the context of a discussion overleaf.
Even so, I wouldn't call 2 or 3% interest when inflation is running at > 10% 'a hike'. It's a negative rate in real terms.

lot123 · 24/07/2022 16:55

I did read your post a few times as I wasn't quite sure whether I was understanding it as you meant it. Either way, it is a negative rate in real terms. By some margin. It's quite a depressing thought.

I was lucky in fixing my mortgage at 0.99% for 5 years at the end of last year, so a doubling of my savings rates has been a net positive.

The same can't be said for my stocks and shares ISA investments which will pay off the capital of my interest only mortgage. They have gone down rather than up over the last six months. It's a bit of a personal finance rollercoaster at the moment.

GreenLunchBox · 24/07/2022 19:34

lot123 · 24/07/2022 16:55

I did read your post a few times as I wasn't quite sure whether I was understanding it as you meant it. Either way, it is a negative rate in real terms. By some margin. It's quite a depressing thought.

I was lucky in fixing my mortgage at 0.99% for 5 years at the end of last year, so a doubling of my savings rates has been a net positive.

The same can't be said for my stocks and shares ISA investments which will pay off the capital of my interest only mortgage. They have gone down rather than up over the last six months. It's a bit of a personal finance rollercoaster at the moment.

Yeah. It's impossible to know what to do with your money these days 😫

rainingsnoring · 24/07/2022 19:42

@lot123 - I think we are in agreement that the rates are rubbish for people who do have money to save.

Nat6999 · 25/07/2022 00:17

Even at 2% they are still fairly low, I can remember when the mortgage rate went up to 15% in the 80's. The only thing that will bring them down is if inflation comes down & the government stop asking the Bank of England to print more money. If inflation is high less people save in the banks & there is less money to generate money so interest rates go up to cover the banks wishes.

Nat6999 · 25/07/2022 00:37

When interest rates were high in the 80's I was just starting as a Civil Servant, we were getting 6% minimum pay rises, it was great if you weren't on the top of the payscale & under 21 like I was you got 3 pay rises a year, the cost of living one, your anniversary rise & your birthday rise, I worked out one year I had in total a 17% pay rise. We could work overtime every week, 8 hours Mon- Fri & 12 hours at the weekend, the weekend was double time as well, I was bringing home nearly double a month as much as my dad was. We even had overnights when the offices were being decorated to supervise the painters, that was double time & time off in lieu. We had so much money we didn't know what to do with it. I was 19, we used to work a month's overtime have a week of no overtime & then start again & on the week with no overtime we went out every night clubbing.

Iamthewombat · 25/07/2022 02:09

yaxe · 18/06/2022 08:52

If banks think rates will be much higher I can't see why they are offering below 3% 10 yr fixes.

I’ll invite you to consider the following:

The interest rates that lenders can offer on mortgages - and savings products - are determined by swap rates. As a financial institution, you have to make a positive margin between your lending and your borrowing (from savers): if your margin is negative, you’ll soon be out of business.

In practice, the way to achieve balance is by swapping the interest you pay to savers for what was LIBOR (now SONIA : the sterling overnight interest rate, i.e. the rate at which banks lend sterling to each other) and swapping the interest you receive from borrowers, likewise. Swaps can be tradeable assets, although many are bespoke, and their value varies according to both current conditions and short to medium term expected conditions, which can be plotted on a yield curve. What you are doing is e.g. swapping the 3% you’re receiving from borrowers on a fixed rate mortgage, which is the fixed leg of that swap, for x years in exchange for SONIA, which is variable and is the ‘floating leg’ of the swap.

So if someone wants to give you SONIA for 5 years in exchange for 3% on the same (e.g.) £50m you have lent to a tranche of borrowers, it might mean that the other side, the swap counterparty, thinks that SONIA will remain below 3% for a bit and they will get the best of the deal. Or it might just mean that they need some fixed rate interest income at 3% to balance their own margin. Yield curves are notoriously unreliable and are dependent on assumptions. Rubbish in = rubbish out. Two modellers might get very different answers. So the counterparty might have accepted too low a fixed rate in exchange for paying SONIA.

Swap rates change rapidly, which is why you are now seeing lenders’ fixed rates being pulled and replaced with higher rates. That’s because swap counterparties all think that SONIA is heading upwards. The counterparty in the example might have been happy to settle for receiving 3% over 5 years on that £50m but once the £50m runs out, a higher rate is needed to swap for SONIA. So SONIA, and the fixed rates for which it is swapped, don’t always represent long term expectations of where interest rates are going. Banks offer whatever rates they can sell on the swap market in the short term. And, fixes often come with high fees so you’re effectively paying a higher interest rate than the headline rate when you factor in the fee.

Plus, markets are not infallible. The markets expect base rate to be 3% by 2023. The markets didn’t see the credit crunch coming, though. Nor did they notice that CDOs were crap. So I’d be wary of assuming that the banks know everything.

RainCloud · 27/07/2022 20:22

The Fed raised theirs by 0.75% today. Our interest rates are now noticeably lower than the US, Aus, Canada and NZ. Wonder what the BoE will do next Thursday? Doubt they will lower rates.

RainCloud · 27/07/2022 21:24

Just seen a prediction that U.K. rates will likely be 2.5% by the end of the year. They are currently 1.25%. So if average fixed rate mortgages are currently 3.5%, then they will be about 4.75% by the end of the year. That's a huge increase for anyone coming off a fix of less than 2%.

rainingsnoring · 27/07/2022 21:50

I'm starting to wonder if the BOE will raise up to 0.75% to try to keep up.

lot123 · 27/07/2022 21:55

Three BoE committee members voted for a 0.5% increase at the last meeting, so I wouldn't be surprised if they raised it to 1.75% on 4 August. Inflation figures aren't giving them much wriggle room.

RainCloud · 27/07/2022 22:05

rainingsnoring · 27/07/2022 21:50

I'm starting to wonder if the BOE will raise up to 0.75% to try to keep up.

A few weeks ago, I thought 0.5% was likely. I now think 0.75% could be on the cards too.

locomocol · 27/07/2022 22:05

I'm betting only 0.25

maryso · 27/07/2022 22:09

@rainingsnoring agree, and does anyone know why we pay the Governor (this and the last one) so much when all they do is follow the US?

AppleBottomRats · 27/07/2022 22:12

I think 0.5. BoE has never been as aggressive as the Fed. But slightly more on it than the ECB, who have just raised rates… to zero.

rainingsnoring · 27/07/2022 22:13

RainCloud · 27/07/2022 22:05

A few weeks ago, I thought 0.5% was likely. I now think 0.75% could be on the cards too.

Ditto.
@maryso I have no idea! He looks semi asleep half the time.

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