to ask here if there's anyone in HR who can help re an occupational review?

[cofingalthetime]

So it's for a friend - no really! She has been diagnosed with PTSD and confirmation from her doc, but she wants to see if she can be classified as having a disability so she can have some 'adjustments' but she is worried about the occupational review and how much detail they will ask her. She has told her line manager she suffers with her mental health, but she doesnt want to have to go into why as she says talking about it triggers her, and could result in a downward spiral. Does anyone know how intrusive an occupational assessment will be? She's had experience of an ''unsympathetic' counsellor before which really set her back. Anyone have experience of this? Could she ask to be assessed by a woman rather than a man for instance. TIA

Not HR but work in area of disability.
Do you mean an Occupational Health assessment?

Occupational Health is run by HCPs and the assessment is confidential. They would likely want a report from her doctor or therapist. Occupational Health make recommendations to managers but without necessarily divulging specific medical details unless it is particularly relevant eg. Office must be on ground floor as wheelchair user.

To have a disability protected under the equality legislation a person must have a condition which affects their normal day to day functioning and have it/be expected to have it for at least 12 months. Your friend would need to provide medical evidence to support this.

What adjustments does your friend actually want?

OH is not therapy. I had an assessment. They won't ask what the trauma is they will only ask how the PTSD affects you and what you think might help at work.

The OH adviser is unlikely to say categorically whether she has a disability but may offer their opinion for the employer to consider. As above, it would need to have lasted or be expected to last 12 months and affect day to day functioning.

If it's mental health related does she have a wellness action plan? MIND have a template on their website with guidance for employees and employers. It is intended to be agreed between both parties and regularly reviewed. It covers things like early warning signs, things that the employee will do to support their well being and also the employer.

Thanks so much. What it is, is that my friend needs more days off, or days at home than the absence policy allows, so she has triggered an 'absence review'. She has told her line manager and HR that she needs these 'mental health' days, she feels she has it pretty under control at the moment though, and if she has the backup of knowing she can take a day if she needs it, she feels she won't need as many IUKWIM. Her line manager wants to be supportive but is bound by the absence policy

So she wants additional time off for ‘mental health’ days? That doesn’t sound reasonable to me.
why doesn’t she not ask for a flexible working adjustment and drop one day per week?

Is she wanting to leave take these days whenever and with no notice/limit? And still get paid for them?

Yes, she told me that if she is classified as having a disability, that enables some leeway with absences? She has been off work for months at a time previously and has started a new job, but found that she has needed to take time off for her 'mental health'. I mean, I suppose if you have a physical disability you are allowed 'extra' time off for your disability, I don't know, but if you are physically tired, or I don't know really, but apparently if you have one of these protected characteristics, of which disability is one, employers are obliged to allow more sick days than would be outlined in the policy. I guess I should call them sick days, not 'days off'.

Yes
They are categorised as sick days - I shouldnt have called them days off really. She puts them down as sick days. But the place where she works obviously has a policy and if you miss so many days in a certain time period it triggers an absence review. If you have a disability, you have more protection. As I understand it?

She does have a diagnosis of PTSD and has been off work for many months previously. She feels if the employer can be understanding she will improve her mental health hopefully, but she also feels that might always need these allowances.

Am employer can make reasonable adjustments ie double the triggers for sickness absence.
is there a formal diagnosis? If these are preempted days then I would expect she would be offered to reduce her days formally.

How many days can she have at present and how many does she want? Approaching it with 'whenever she needs it, with no consequences' doesn't sound like something most businesses would go for?

I’ve managed staff with mental health issues who had extended trigger points as a reasonable adjustment. But there has to be a limit - reasonable adjustment means reasonable to both parties, regardless as to whether the condition is a disability or not (and OH won’t say one way or the other just make a notes as to whether it’s “likely”
to be classed as a disability).

Even adjustments have to be reasonable for both parties.

It isn't just a one way street.

Hmm. I'm not sure that's a reasonable adjustment.

How long has she been in the job, and how many days off sick has she had?

Is there an option to work from home?

I really can't see this being allowed tbh.

Disability and sickness absence are not the same thing. People with a disability are entitled to reasonable adjustments and time off to attend medical appointments for the condition causing the disability.
They still have to be basically well enough to attend work though otherwise sickness absence monitoring and dismissal on medical grounds can still happen.

As PP has mentioned a reasonable adjustment could be extending the trigger time for sickness absence monitoring. It may also be allowing her to work from home on her bad days or taking annual leave at short notice.

I note you mentioned an unsympathetic counsellor. Is your friend receiving treatment from an a"specialist trauma therapist? Treatment such as EMDR?

So legally yes, a reasonable adjustment can consist of the amount of sick days 'allowed' being set higher for someone with a disability (how high is v dependent on size/resources of organisation and impact of her having the days off on the business)
However its not a guarantee nor would there be an unlimited pass.
It might also be considered 'reasonable' in a shift working environment for the hours to be paid back at a later date, would that be an option your friend could suggest? Obviously not possible in a 9-5 office if you work full time but in a call centre that does 8am - 8pm coverage it could be an option depending on how your friends health affects her.

Yes OH can recommend an extended trigger warning. It it's not likely to be anywhere near X days a month in my experience though. More likely:
'Extend trigger by 2 days' & not 'X is allowed to work 4 days a week' for example. So HR process will be implemented at 9 consecutive days rather than 7 (or whatever her policy is)
They do have to make reasonable adjustments if classed as a disability and WFH could be one of them.
If she has been off sick for a while, maybe a phased return might help?

She has only been in the job for a short time and has already triggered an absence review. She is very scared of the process, the thought of telling someone why she has PTSD and her manager and HR finding out is causing her so much stress she doesnt want to do the occupational health thing. I guess she needs some advice from HR about what is involved in the process. I was hesitant about advising her to go to HR and they will just be following their process, and could inadvertantly trigger her. Could someone enquire on her behalf like maybe a union rep? I feel if she had a bit of a buffer she might be able to go through it. If she doesnt do this she is heading for getting the sack eventuallly.

I'm in HR and we do have staff with PTSD that have had occupational health reviews. In some cases we know the event that caused the PTSD because the employee has been comfortable disclosing it to us but we do have cases where we don't know the triggering event and we cannot, and have not asked.

An occupational health review is useful because it can help guide us as an employing company in making certain reasonable adjustments, as others have said this may mean the trigger for an absence review is set at a higher rate but it isn't a free pass. The occupational health nurse should share the report with your friend before it is sent to HR so she can approve it or say she's not happy with some of the contents and get it changed.

It's definitely worth her having the review. Without it her employer's hands are tied as all they know is she has some mental health issues and a high absence rate. With more information adjustment may be possible.

Tell her to join a union pronto. Also acas are very supportive.

As she is a new employee did she declare she had a health condition? is she already in a union? and is she under any kind of care plan via MH services?

If she's been in the job less than 2 years and has had a lot of time off, and is basically telling them that she wants more paid time off on demand, then it is likely that they will let her go.

She doesn't have to tell them the root cause of the PTSD, but what OH will want to establish in this meeting is what adjustments they can put in place to facilitate her NOT having frequent periods of absence. They will absolutely not agree to allow her paid leave as and when she feels she needs.

They will want to discuss what they can do to support her doing the job. If she is not able to do the job at the contracted hours then they may let her go.

I’m in HR as well and I agree with the poster above that also works in HR.

The absence triggers are important for us to understand if there’s a problem. Meetings can be arranged to understand what the company can do to support. At times GP reports or OH reports may be asked with the employee’s consent to have a professional view on the issues and how we can provide reasonable adjustments that work for both the company and the employee.

As the other poster said as well reports can be reviewed by the employee before its sent to us. You don’t need to disclose the cause of the PTSD if you don’t feel comfortable to however we can only work based on the information we have so we need to know how it affects the employee and what changes can we do to support that. It could be days off in between shifts, different working times, a flexible working arrangement etc.

Your friend shouldn’t be scared of these procedures because we are here to help. Honestly the less information you provide and refusal to participate in meetings and such can push your case to be dealt with the information available which is none and create a bigger problem.

You can’t be sacked without a good reason otherwise you’d have grounds for unfair dismissal but if you don’t try to cooperate the company can’t do much.

I doubt that any company would agree to have extra sick days or more annual leave like that without exploring other avenues such as flexible working request.

She should be able to take someone with her to the meeting if she needs support.