To think wealthy people will leave Scotland?

[Juniperberries25]

..if the YES side win a referendum? Surely a lot of successful businesses and people who are wealthy/ comfortable/ have paid into a pension will not want to risk all their assets becoming worthless? Or am I missing something? Higher taxes, unknown currency, economic uncertainty, hard border, national security concerns etc

It would cost BILLIONS to set up new Government bodies (eg DVLA, Passport office, MI5, MI6, Amy Navy, RAF to name a few) so surely taxes will be much, much higher than rest of the UK?

Just to clarify I am NOT a fan of Boris but surely he will be long gone by the time Scotland actually became independent after YES vote (probably at least 10 years, just look at the BREXIT timeline).

Please don't flame me, I am just wondering what people think as I genuinely don't get how the benefits outweigh the risks.

I do not see anyone here espousing Braveheart politics. As I said I voted no last time but will vote yes this time. I am not keen on nationalism and although born and raised in Scotland consider myself British.

This sounds similar to why people voted for Brexit

Out of interest how do goods travel to Scotland and would this change?

Nope, just pointing out some truths and stating my opinion.

Care to counter as to why it is beneficial for Scotland to share it's resources with 60 million people in 3 other countries?

Also @Babdoc Scotland doesn't have deficit, the Scotland Act legally binds Scotland to returning a balanced budget every year. The 24% you are quoting is the claimed deficit an independent Scotland would have but is based on figures that are widely dismissed as inaccurate and misleading at best. For example, they include an apportionment of the UK national debt, which is impossible to know. If Scotland were to assume any liability for the UK national debt it would have to be negotiated along with what assets they would be entitiles to. I think when Czechoslovakia split it was on a 2:1 ratio (which makes sense as their population difference was around 2:1).

They also do not include revenue currently accounted for in HMRC figures that would fall into Scotland's revenue post independence such as income/business tax and vat.

@MarshaBradyo they have said that it would be problematic and that if we were in Europe it would need to be a hard border.

As pp said, they have no idea what this would mean. I used to live on Dumfries, nearest Asda is in Carlisle. I used to go there for a big shop. If a border, I’d need to show my passport, and wouldn’t be allowed to take my Asda cheese and ham sandwich home with me as it would contravene EU food import laws.

I remember plenty of people saying that leaving the EU was about independence and that was more important than money. If people can make an emotional choice about leaving the EU then how is that different to people in Scotland also making that emotional choice?

@MajorCarolDanvers

Completely understand. I am Scottish born and bred but currently live and work in England. My husband is English, we have considered moving back to my home town many times but I just couldn’t expose him or our children to the anti English xenophobia that is strong there, sadly.

I read somewhere about how hard it will be for Scotland to gain EU membership as they don’t won’t to encourage other breakaway states in Europe. So that could be trickier than people realise too.

@antelopevalley I'm not British or wealthy! I considered buying because I've always wanted to live up there. I didn't have much money and Scotland has really great places much more affordable than England and at the time I had some money put aside, but decided that with Brexit it wouldn't be a good idea to put my money into a place that is cut off from the rest of Europe, so I bought elsewhere.
I also think people will move into Scotland as a result. I agree 100% with this. Scotland has great universities and I for one considered getting another degree there but I don't want to have to sort visas and the like. It's too much hassle to move to a third-world country. I've done that and I wouldn't do it again unless it were for a permanent arrangement.
Between Sturgeon and Boris, I think Sturgeon would do a better job, though tbh Boris isn't that great to start with. I mean, didn't he get fired from a newspaper for making up stories...? I don't know why people are so shocked about those no.10 parties when he'd shown he lacked ethics before.

You may well get the reverse though if they join the EU, lots of English moving up there and taking their businesses with them!!

They may be replaced by lefty English people like me, desperate to get away from Tory governments.

One of the reasons the SNP has grown in strength and support is because the Scots used to vote Labour but get Tory governments, thanks to the English and the FPTP system that doesn't give the UK governments that reflect people's political views.

Good luck to them, I say, and if they succeed in getting an independent Scotland, hope they go from strength to strength.

@MarshaBradyo It is different because it was obvious Brexit would be an economic disaster.
With the UK in the EU it made economic sense for Scotland not to be independent. Things have changed now.

On the contrary, it IS seen that way in Scotland and it appears you forget that many who vote SNP also DON'T want to rejoin the EU. It's not like the Scottish independence movement isn't split - it is.

Plus we would need our own currency backed up by a central bank, and fulfil the economic criteria to join Europe, which is extremely unlikely in the short term. The big countries of the EU don’t want another Portugal or Greece to subsidise.

This is just like Brexit, support for it comes from the people who won’t have to pay for it, but want to live in a fantasy world of nationalism and flag waving

Exactly how I feel. The UK economy is tanking. Every prediction from financial experts is dire.

But English people won’t be able to move here if we are in the EU!

It's no different - let's face it, the SNP haven't persuaded the majority of us that there's an economic case for independence. The problem is that when you get vague, meaningless statements about taking back control without a clear road map of how that will happen then you get the shitstorm that is Brexit. We are all a bit older and a bit wiser, so the SNP will have to come up with something really watertight to persuade enough of us to change our stance from no to yes.

I think pp are right about damage but It’s always hard for individuals to know and many also believed the same re Brexit hence the vote

How do you see goods moving and the border set up?

The UK economy is tanking because of Brexit! Watch and learn: Scexit would be even worse

I don't consider myself particularly wealthy although I earn a good salary which would be even better is Scottish tax bands didn't already deduct a grand a year more than they would in England! I'm originally English and have already identified which area I'm moving to if it happens. Can't see there being an issue with work, they're usually quite flexible, I don't really have a local team so I'd just relocate to the nearest office in England.

Those people already have such a place - the Republic of Ireland, and it has a massive head start in attracting trade and investment. Many global companies already have their European headquarters there, why would they want to move?

This is why independence must succeed. The English, both people and government, care about Scotland about as much as they care about Pluto. Yet they are the ones who ultimately decide our fate.

The only reason we haven't been jettisoned by them is because Scotland contains lots of valuable resources they would have to otherwise pay for.

People keep accusing those of us arguing for yes as flag-wavers and nationalists and bravehearts. I see none of that on this thread. It is a strawman because independence at this point makes sense for the Scottish economy.

Less than half of the electorate in Glasgow even turned up to vote in the EU referendum. I'm not sure Scots are actively desperate to be 'in Europe'.

The level of naivety of those that don't understand how much civil service administration is already done in Scotland is not surprising.

You also forget that it's not just about setting up new services for IS, it's also the impact on the RUK civil service. The costs go both ways.

So is the issue England want to have a say and pp is glad they don’t or they don’t care enough?

So much of this seems emotively driven based on perception than economic reality. It is like Brexit in that sense.