To think wealthy people will leave Scotland?

[Juniperberries25]

..if the YES side win a referendum? Surely a lot of successful businesses and people who are wealthy/ comfortable/ have paid into a pension will not want to risk all their assets becoming worthless? Or am I missing something? Higher taxes, unknown currency, economic uncertainty, hard border, national security concerns etc

It would cost BILLIONS to set up new Government bodies (eg DVLA, Passport office, MI5, MI6, Amy Navy, RAF to name a few) so surely taxes will be much, much higher than rest of the UK?

Just to clarify I am NOT a fan of Boris but surely he will be long gone by the time Scotland actually became independent after YES vote (probably at least 10 years, just look at the BREXIT timeline).

Please don't flame me, I am just wondering what people think as I genuinely don't get how the benefits outweigh the risks.

Ireland has a higher standard of living with much higher wages as well.

So offering “free” tuition has done nothing to increase the percentage of students going to uni then?

30% of tax revenue comes from the top 1% of earners. You couldn’t physically have enough of a low paid population to bring in sufficient taxes to cover all of free things you want to give away. You’d end up having to tax the low paid even harder to pay for it all.
What needs to happen is to pay those poor people a better wage for these tasks. They have an improved wage and so more tax is earned for the country.
I honestly can’t believe that you’re suggesting we keep people poor.

If Indy Scotland doubled the rate of income tax (and no one left Scotland to avoid paying such an extortionate income tax) it would bring in an extra £8bn a year. The Barnett formula gives Scotland £12-£15bn a year more than it spends. Leave the UK and even doubling income tax won’t make up for losing the Barnett formula. That is the economic situation Scotland would be in just in Barnett formula loss alone (then there is the debt, currency problems, border etc). Is any of this sinking in yet? It’s not ‘hubris’ or ‘project fear’. It’s the reality. And it’s dire.

I know a Scottish guy who runs a successful business and regularly travels down to London. In fact, he is partly based there, though he lives in Glasgow. He has often said he'd leave Scotland if the UK broke up (his mum is English and his dad is Scottish). I'm sure he wouldn't be the only one. Scotland already has a demographic problem – basically, too many old people. England has the same issue, but it's even worse in Scotland. How is Scotland going to pay its generous public sector pensions outside the UK? Anyone who thinks young Scots who've emigrated to Australia and Canada are going to flock home is living in a fantasy. The opposite will happen – more will leave and the demographic problem will become even worse.

The SNP love to portray England as a right-wing backwater. They seem to think that once Scotland 'escapes' the UK it will blossom into a rich, Scandinavian-style paradise. But where is the money going to come from? An independent Scotland would end up with a 200% public debt to GDP ratio – worse than that of Greece. It isn't even clear what the currency would be. The pound? The groat? The Euro?

SNP supporters talk about the EU like it's some kind of progressive wonderland. It isn't. The brutal truth is that countries like Bulgaria, Poland, Greece, Turkey, etc, don't want to join because they care about 'peace' and 'social justice'. They join for one reason only – money. Specifically, German money. I spend a lot of time in Germany, and I can tell you from experience that behind closed doors many Germans are sick of the EU .

Also, if Scotland joins the EU, that will mean a hard border with England. And whether you hate the English or not (and let's be honest, many SNP supporters do hate the English), the fact is the Scots do three times as much business with England as with the rest of Europe. A hard border would be a nightmare.

@Blimeyherewegoagain Wages are rising for the lowest paid. Businesses are still closing because of a lack of staff. You need a balanced workforce.

The percentage of Scottish students going to Scottish universities is the same as the percentage of English students going to English universities.

By all rights the free scottish university education should attract a larger proportion of students.

It’s a heart over head pipe dream.

sense dictates remain

Why does sense dictate remina?
Just because you pronounce that does not make it true.

Absolutely, but because the Scottish government have decided that £1800 is a sufficient amount to pay to the universities for each place (it’s not) the books have to be balanced. The unis have had to limit Scottish places and take on overseas students to do that.

So the same proportion of Scottish people go to university as England and that is a reason for us all to vote against independence?
You are clutching at straws.

No, it’s about balancing the books. The SNP government is not a good steward of money and this is one example of that.

Kris02 · Today 22:06
I know a Scottish guy

KRIS02, this must make you an expert.

@Blimeyherewegoagain so they do the same as the UK government does with funding free nursery care?
Also not good at balancing the books?

Where is the link or evidence that we are subsidised by the rest of the UK. It would be interesting to read that.

I am still waiting on the evidence that we categorically will get into the EU that I asked @antelopevalley for several hours ago but I guess that won’t come either.

But hey ho, I will keep asking in the hope that those posters who are voting to leave so that we will get back into the EU will realise that as with all of the Brexit promises, there is nothing in writing.

This is the whole thing reason English people can piss us off.... I know a Scottish guy. Well done you, we are clearly all the same as your guy! No! Actually not at all, most of us don't bother travelling to London, we are quite happy trading up here in haggis and tartan. FFS!

Not read the full thread, first time I've seen it. I'm English and never lived in Scotland.

Since brexit/bojo I'm ashamed to be English. We made a huge deal in the last referendum that the only way to stay in the EU was to stay in the union. Then the "UK" voted to leave but really it was the English.

If I was Scottish I'd feel betrayed.
As an English person, if I could vote for the SNP I would because their policies align with mine

So I think YABU. I think Scotland as an independent country would have a lot going for it.

It's waiting with the evidence that the tories said the only way to STAY in the EU was to vote no to independence! Now look where we are. How much further does this ship need to sink before you open your eyes? We will never be able to rule our own future as part of GB. Scotland voted to stay, England dragged us under and out. I think it's the lack of political power that we no longer want to pass on to future generations. We are sick of being a punching bag to a bunch of ill informed MP's that treat us as a joke. Why not let us go, why not give us a REFERENDUM? That is the question you should be asking yourself. If the Barnett formula etc is all real, then cast us adrift! Oh wait, but what about our natural resources, where are you going to put trident that nobody wants (but we have been dumped with) Why are they trying so damn hard to keep us?

Winkywonky, you're pretty much proving previous poster's claims that some Scots hate the English.

Blimeyherewegoagain, DH works in HE and is so disenchanted with 'free' university education for Scottish students - the lack of funding is causing real issues for many of the newer Scottish universities - they're chasing overseas students because they can't function on the meagre funding they receive from the Scottish Govt.

@trainbear Yes xenophobia racism or hate is common in Scotland

Not in my experience; in our lives they've been very rare. DH and I are English, we're a mixed race family, have lived in Scotland almost 50 years.

@winkywonky I acknowledged that there were a lot of lies said during Brexit which is why we really don’t know what we will get until it is too late to change our minds just like some did after they voted for Brexit.

so once again, where does it categorically state by the EU we will get into it if we become independent as unless it’s in writing we can’t assume it will happen, try and learn from the lies spouted at Brexit- if you want independence, go ahead vote for it, but if you want independence because it will deliver EU membership or whatever else, don’t be so sure it will.

Oh and what makes posters assume that we will actually want to rejoin anyway, plenty of independence voters categorically don’t.

What a load of tripe! I am pointing out where people keep making assumptions about Scottish people and then when that is called out, then we hate the English! Nope, we don't like being pigeon holed by anyone. Unfortunately, the majority of the time this is by feckless English MP's. Not English people. However, there has been a lot of comments on here tonight that have been down right rude and oppressive to Scottish people!

I really am uncomfortable with the way SNP supporters are trying to sell EU membership as a done deal or even as quick. "2 or 3 years" - really? No country has ever joined the EU as an intrant state in 2 or 3 years. I think the quickest has been 8 years, and that was the accelerated membership for the former Eastern European countries, which received a huge amount of assistance.

From what I can see, the Scottish Government keeps moving *away" from EU law. I was working at the time Freedom of Information rights were extended and the Scottish Government was consulted on them. It was vehemently opposed to them and there was a government response which basically stated it would cause too much work and no-one in Europe would have any interest in such requests anyway. The British Government put up no such objections.

An independent Scotland would be outwith the EU, the UK and the ECHR (the last White Paper made no committment to an independent Scotland even signing the ECHR, and instead said they were going to have a "Scottish version".

To be honest, I think an independent Scotland would have more in common with a country like Lithuania, which has hardly flourished despite EU membership, except that Scotland wouldn't have EU membership.

I think the universities would suffer as well because English students wouldn't go there in such numbers, and theres only so many massive fee paying Asian students available.

I might be influenced by the fact that I do know quite a few SNP supporters and each and every one of them is about as fun to be around as a paint drying on a fence. They do that kind of thing where they have to outdo each other in being the most woke, fake-caring and socialist, and thats basically all their conversations consist of once they get going - competing claims of the horrors of poverty, what might happen if you don't do x and y, it will all be terrible but don't worry it will all be wonderful if you join the party/cult/club. I think I was singled out by a couple of them for possible brainwashing membership, and got special nicey nicey treatment, and although I managed not to puke, I did tell them, somewhat nicely, to jeff off.

I just get the impression that an independent Scotland wouldn't be a very nice country at all - with party membership and adherence to its ideals pretty much essential to succeed, little freedom of speech and constantly looking over your shoulder so someone doesn't catch you being on-message.

Where about in Scotland are you based? Need to avoid these SNP supporters. As for us not being a very nice independent country, that's not very kind. What a lot of people seem to be overlooking is that a vote for independence does not mean the SNP will be in power. You don't buy a house if you don't like the decor. SNP are gettin