To not pay the whole vet's bill

[Member869894]

Hello. Honest opinions please. I took my dog to the vet today as he has breathing difficulties. The vet listened to his heart and lungs, pronounced them fine and then said he'd do a couple of blood tests and call me with the results. The whole thing took15-20 minutes.
On leaving I was presented with a bill for £188!!!!! I said that I would pay for the consultation fee (£56) but that I hadn't been told that the blood tests would be extra or that they would be so expensive

I'm kicking myself I didn't ask more about if the cost of the blood tests and if they were included in the consultation as Iif I had known how much they cost I would have said no. Equally, I think I should have been very carefully advised of the cost before they went ahead. What do you think?

Can't believe people don't ask beforehand.

People like you, OP?

@tsmainsqueeze - thank you for all that you do 💐🐾

A trip to the vet with dd hammy cost 60ish pound. It did include medication.
poor thing still died a week later.

Vet bills have gone up a lot in recent years and there are various reasons for this. I qualified 19 years ago. My first job was a mixed practice on the edge of a pretty village in a scenic part of the country; the building was large and old with a slightly tumbledown shed and a nice little garden. It would have been cheap to buy or rent back when my boss took over the practice several decades previously. It would probably sell for at least half a million now.

VAT - payable on all veterinary goods and services, even euthanasia- was 17.5% not 20% as it is now. The boss didn't have to pay for a computer practice management system- our clinical records were on postcard sized cards stapled together. You couldn't fit much on them, certainly not the "offered x, client declined, explained y, owner understands that z drug is not licensed for use in animals" that you have to write now to defend against potential litigation (waaay more common now).

In fact I can't even remember if the cascade system- whereby we are now legally obliged to use vet licensed drugs if one exists for the condition, instead of cheap human generics- even existed. (I was outraged when Libromide was licensed- licensing a simple salt so we couldn't use the generic KBr we had used for years! The price jumped from about 20p/tablet to £1/ tablet overnight).

We didn't have consent forms for GA and surgery. Pet insurance was practically non existent among our clients so no time needed to fill in forms. Taking bloods was a bit of an event- we had no lab machines in house so everything had to be sent out. Lots of the blood tests we have now didn't even exist then. Digital Xray systems didn't exist. We didn't even have an automatic developer for film: we had dip tanks, or rather, we fumbled in the dark with 3 cheap cat litter trays in a row with developer, water and fixer in them and a nurse leaning against the door to stop chinks of light getting in and calling the times. We didn't have drip pumps, you just counted drops and hoped the drip would keep running overnight if you'd kept anything in. Inpatients weren't routinely checked overnight; sometimes I'd pull a coat and wellies on over my pyjamas and walk up the street from my wee flat that came with the job (the other new grad was in the practice flat) to check something at about midnight. We had no way of monitoring blood glucose or (expensive) electrolytes or what have you anyway, so the likes of the ketoacidotic diabetics just had to take their chance, no pressure.

Skin cases- common then as now- were pretty straightforward: (cheap) pred or not? (Cheap) Chappie trial or not? Antibiotics or not? And that was it. (Expensive) cytopoint and apoquel didn't exist. (Expensive) hydrolysed protein diets didn't exist, or not in my world anyway. Convenia didn't exist. CLX wipes and chlorexyderm foam for feet didn't exist, you could just dispense a bit of cheap Hibiscrub in a brown bottle. (Expensive) Cortavance topical steroid spray didn't exist or hadn't filtered down to us yet. Malaseb existed, but not the plethora of other medicated shampoos. Medicated ear drops existed but were a lot cheaper than they are now. Osurnia didn't exist. Triz Nac didn't exist. Ear cleaners did but not the good range we have now, and they were cheaper. Referral for (expensive) intradermal testing and hyposensitisation vaccines did exist, but far away and nobody ever went for it.

Basically, clients didn't have to feel bad for not spending money, because the expensive options didn't even exist for the main part. Back then , you only had to discuss options C and D because A and B didn't exist. So less time spent talking, less client guilt, and therefore less guilt transferred onto us. A lot of clients considered a dog over the age of about 9 to be "old" and would be astonished to learn that it probably would survive a GA for dental extractions. We started off using thio when I worked there, but then got the new fangled propofol. Clients amazed that their dog could walk out the door after a spay instead of being carried out to the car. Like I said- less pressure in those days. Oh, and no Dr Google for the client to consult if they thought you hadn't diagnosed and treated their pet's rare condition optimally in the first consult, and no Facebook for them to complain to the world if they thought you were shite.

What else? The Irish government had paid for my degree course (thanks). The poor old UK university students had had to pay the shocking new tuition fees of £1000/yr (my big sister was one of the last to get a maintence grant as standard). I had racked up £7k of a student loan debt though, it was expensive to rent a room in a student flat in Dublin. Well back then we thought it was expensive.

Annual CPD wasn't mandatory. You could just walk out of vet college and that was it. A CPD budget was considered rather flashy. GDPR didn't exist so I didn't have to sit through the mandatory annual corporate training video about that, and the pet insurance legalities FCA rule one and all the health and safety ones. Easier for a practice to be independent, as they all were then, when they didn't have to pay for or learn to do all the stuff that a big corporate such as the one I now work for can do en masse. The boss's wife did the accounts and I got my pay cheque in a little brown envelope.

@powershowerforanhour interesting post, thank you!

I qualified in 2011 and some of the best vets I've worked with are the old school ones who are sensible, use their common sense and keep up to date with new scientific developments.

Gold standard vs affordable care, ensuring patient quality of life and keeping client expectations in mind... it can be such a balancing act.

Interesting posts PowerShower and ExPat.
I've just left the profession myself after 15 years.
I agree with everything you've said. It's almost unrecognizable now. Not all the changes have been positive.

Sadly, the attitudes of some of the posts on this thread have been enduring throughout my whole career though! Some things never change.

There are strict rules around the dispensing of Prescription Only Medicines, which is what your wormers/flea treatments were. Every vet practice in the land has to abide by these. Seeing an animal every 6 mths for meds is usual. A year would be the absolute max. Vets have not had losses during covid. Mostly the opposite with the dramatic surge in lockdown puppies. You have a disgusting attitude.

Not a 'rip off'. That's the cost or running a veterinary practice. Do you think the receptionist and nurses are volunteers? That the fixtures, fittings and equipment is from Freecycle? That the electricity and gas is delivered free? That they receive insurance and the rent or buildings free of charge? Or may that the x Ray machine and ultrasound scanner costing thousands just magically appear?

The naiievey is astounding.

You must be (and ARE) a complete idiot for assuming diagnostic testing such as blood tests would be included in your consultation fee. A consultation fee is for checks notes a consultation, meaning the vet will have a look at your pet and maybe check heart & lungs with a stethoscope. Any invasive tests OBVIOUSLY cost extra and unless you are unable to speak or write, you should be perfectly capable of asking if any of the diagnostic procedures will cost extra and if so, how much. OBVIOUSLY medication is extra too. How can you possibly have a pet and not know this?

Would you get a taxi somewhere and after being asked for £10, you refuse to pay more than £4 as you believe that's what the fuel would have cost?

If your boiler needed servicing and the plumber invoiced you for £95, would you just offer them a tenner because that's what you believe the spare part they used might have cost you at B&Q?

You are delusional if you think this is in any way acceptable. I'm all for making sure as consumers we're not getting conned or ripped off but these are qualified professionals with huge overheads and if you think you can do a better job yourself or less money without paying a professional, feel free. Maybe not with plumbing though, I don't advise that!

Oh shut up you idiot. The vet should have told her how much the tests would be. And your analogies are bloody stupid too. Plumbers, taxis etc do provide estimates and sometimes (plumbers) some things are included and others isnt. Vets bills are hugely expensive and they should tell people how much procedures are going to be before carrying them out.

I don't have any pets at the moment as I couldn't afford sudden vets bills and I know insurance doesn't cover everything. I don't think it's a good idea to have pets if you aren't happy to pay the costs involved.

Vets are private healthcare for animals so every action needs to be charged out. Even a trip to an NHS dentist which involves X-rays is a lot more than just a check up free and you are not told the costs upfront so OP should have guessed there would be more than just the consultation fee.

I love my vets. I have been with them for over 35 years and they have been amazing, unfailingly kind, thorough and even the prices are quite reasonable. You can bet I tell them so frequently. Has it all been rainbows and unicorn farts? No of course not, there have been small rows and disagreements but first, last and always I trust them and they trust me.

Our vets recommended blood tests before our dog had surgery (not castration) to check for any underlying health conditions that could be affected by the anaesthetic. We paid the extra because he's tiny so giving him the anaesthetic was already a risk.

@girlmom21 Yes, we had blood tests done when our small dog had his dental work to detect any underlying conditions. It’s scary putting a pet under anesthetic, I was mentally prepared for him not to come out-but he did and he’s fine!

I’m not saying the vets are wrong but I’d be questioning that as ‘standard’ for straightforward surgeries that would be fairly short in duration. We don’t do it as standard for humans, including young kids if you want size comparisons 😝. It is necessary in some cases but not as a general rule, particularly for routine ops and where there is no indication investigations would be required for underlying conditions. Would be interesting to hear from any vets here on how animals may vary in this regard, wildly different physiological response to anaesthetics??

I would say YANBU to an extent.

You have to pay the bill now but I'm surprised at your vet.

Ddog wasn't insured. Every time we went to the vet, she would check if we had insurance and, if not, let us know the cost before proceeding. No surprise bills.

One time she was considering a scan just to confirm something. She thought it would be about £1,000, which we had the money for, but said that she'd check first.

She was horrified that one place quoted £5k+ and the other upto £10k. For a scan! She was 99% sure of her diagnosis and only wanted confirmation so we didn't go ahead. (For contrast I had had a similar scan privately for myself just prior to this and it was about £200).

It seems that, because the assumption is that everyone has insurance, the expensive treatments are used straight away. The customer doesn't pay immediately, the insurance company does, but then increases the premiums drip by drip.

It’s laughable that people actually think vets get commission or any extra money for what they sell or do.

Im sure the people working at Tesco are jumping with joy at the commission when you do your weekly shop too 🤔

Obviously they don’t believe vets or nurses are salaried just like everybody else…

the reason a vet will advise pre-op bloods is because animals are massively stoic and don’t always let on when something is wrong. ( this increases massively with prey animals) easiest way to check there’s nothing underlying that would need extra care under anesthesia is to blood test.
ask for price of castration, that’s what you’ll get told. Bloods aren’t included in that price as standard because not everyone will want them.

and the reason you get asked if your pet is insured as one of the early questions is so the vet knows what kind of tests and treatment are available to them from the get go. It’s nothing to do with throwing the kitchen sink at the pet regardless ( there are criteria you have to meet for the insurance company to be happy to pay out) and it gives the security for the vet to suggest the absolute best tests and treatments available rather than trying to do things on the cheap to keep costs down while not compromising treatment.

Vets and nurses want the same thing as owners - happy, healthy pets - help them out a bit though!!!

@Trudij123 That's really sad. When Zara needed the ankle arthodesis after the dislocation the vet asked me if I had insurance and I could visibly see the relief when I said yes. It must be terrible for vets to see a healthy animal with an injury they absolutely could fix and the owner can't pay it. He said it will take I while to heal but the prognosis is very good - and it was. There's a slight loss of range of movement in the ankle but its painless and she can run and jump with no problems.

We do pick up lots of issues on pre-op bloods. Mainly we are looking for liver or kidney problems because anaesthetic drugs are metabolised by these organs so we can make changes accordingly.
Statistically older pets are more likely have issues but we do see younger ones with problems from time to time.
It’s a mini blood panel, not the full works and it’s offered rather than insisted upon. Again it boils down to informed consent, budgets, how the client feels about it etc.
Please don’t get angry with us for offering it ( yes that does happen). If you don’t want the blood simply check the correct box on the form.

Thinking about this some more, it does seem that the OP was only expecting the information to which she is legally entitled under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations which require prices, or some indication of how they are calculated, to be provided before the consumer is committed to the transaction.

It does seem that a lot of vets are a bit too slack about this. Perhaps there should be a table of charges displayed in the waiting room, and the vet should ask the pet owner 'Have you read this? Do you have any questions about pricing?'

@iloveeverykindofcat last week we had two owner sign overs, one 8 month old kitten with a fracture and a puppy with a congenital problem the breeder couldn’t be bothered to take responsibility for. It’s something that happens every single week.

Both of these will be treated entirely by using profit from the business, staff taking responsibility or donations, none of any of the profit goes to us by the way other than a standard salary.

Often, when an animal is signed over we are subject to a huge amount of abuse from the previous owner or social media attacks because we do not return it to the original home if it’s able to be fixed.

We also treat a huge amount of wildlife for free. Last week we had foxes, birds of prey, 2x seals and a badger. None of this is seen by the public but maybe it should be as it would stop the constant abuse.

@Bigblackandreddog I have huge respect for all you do but as a cat lover the kitten one makes me wince particularly. A fracture ffs. Get it in the right position and a kitten will heal in no time.

Anyway yeah insure your pets people.

Basic prices are usually displayed on the vets website.
You're absolutely right about cost. If I start a procedure that turns out to be far more involved than I originally thought, I will contact the client at the time to explain why and check they are still happy to go ahead.