To be so pissed off with my Dad's care in hospital

[RhubarbyTree]

He's been in for 12 days. I've been unable to visit because he tested positive for covid upon admission. I can visit from tomorrow.

I have told them multiple times I have full POA. His wife, my stepmum, has been the designated visitor. She cannot cope with his health needs. She also has memory issues. I deal with everything medical and financial to do with my Dad.

The hospital has been shocking at telling me anything. It took the consultant 4 days to call me back. The nurses get pissed off when I call saying "your Mum is here, why do we need to repeat ourselves?". I have told everyone numerous times I deal with everything medical to do with my Dad. Was asked for the 5th time today if I'm down as next of kin/POA. Yep, the same as the last 4 times you asked me.

I was told yesterday his blood sugar levels are high (diabetic). I was very surprised as they've been under control the past few months after a change in regime, for the first time in years. I then discovered they'd dropped his insulin from 4 times a day to 2. No consultation. It took us MONTHS to get them under control and then the "expert" came along and changed them and now he's high and not feeling well.

I spoke to his nurse earlier about it, we discussed it and the nurse said my concerns are noted and we can speak tomorrow about it when I'm in. Spoke to my Dad afterwards and he told me he fell when they made him try to get out of bed. I was never told about this.

They will not tell me anything. I spoke to his GP on Friday who told me more about his results in hospital than I've been told in the 12 days since he's been in.

Am I overreacting?? Should I let the hospital get on with it? It has been like pulling teeth. The attitude I get when I phone had been unreal. It would take me ages to list the cock ups since he's been in. If they'd only speak to me like I've asked (several times) then they'd be aware of so much more.

Another query! Dad has been moved to another ward and has been very upset with the new nurses. Well, 1 in particular.

I spoke to my Dad's diabetic nurse and she wasn't happy they've changed his regime and insulin. She said she'd call the ward.

I called for an update on Dad and spoke to the nurse my Dad isn't keen on. She advised he's still on the wrong insulin and doses. I asked why I wasn't being consulted when I've asked several times and had highlighted this concern before. She wasn't happy with being questioned. She asked if I was down as NOK and saw it said I had POA. She said I'd need to bring in the POA documents.

I don't know why, she wouldn't elaborate. I suspect she is being difficult. I have dealt with Dad's numerous medical professionals for years and have never once been asked to show the POA. My Mum is in daily seeing Dad and they can both confirm I've to be consulted.

Is it a requirement that they have the POA document to speak to me when Mum and Dad can confirm they should?

She ended the call saying the diabetic team will call me about the insulin which I also don't understand if I need to bring in the POA??

Ward moves are quite common, as people spend time in hospital they move from assessment units onto actual wards and then maybe even to a discharge lounge, if there's an infection on a ward patients may be moved too.

The diabetes nurse in the community won't have the full information based on her records. He needs to be seen by the diabetic team in hospital, they'll be able to make a plan. It could be his meds have been changed as he's been unwell and his diabetes has been a bit haywire, it often happens due go feeling unwell, change change diet, not eating etc.

It's standard procedure for my ward to ask to see the POA and we wouldn't treat you as POA until you could produce it to avoid any issues arising.

It seems mad to you, but we do have distant relatives and friend calling and claiming POA when in fact they don't have it.

It also sounds like they're expecting you to send it in with DM.

Can I suggest you switch with your mum and visit for a couple of days, that way you can produce the POA and scope out the nurses on thd ward. Ask if you can speak to his consultant or the ward manager about your concerns, be very very clear, 'mum has memory problems, please treat her visits as wellbeing time for my father, she is not there to be consultant or informed about health matters as she cannot retain the information, I need to be informed, as you can see I have POA.' you can also ask if you can set up a password tobe set up which give them permission to discus your dad over the phone. Write down all your concerns and tell them, there and then in person. Make it clear if they're not addressed you will be contacting PALs.

Sadly due to the immense workload, elderly care is not what it once was, there's now a lot of disillusioned, frustrated and tired staff on our wards, and care can be lacking. Please speak up about it, things will only improve if you do.

Some people are scared that if they complain their relative gets worse treatment. I have never seen this happen. Usually the nurses start to ensure their care is better.

Having POA doesn’t mean you have control of him. It means that you can act in his best interest once he no longer has capacity.
Hospitals are very very busy, they don’t have time to keep speaking to relatives because they are caring for the patients.
It sounds to me like you’re overstepping the mark here.

Actually, you’re the one being difficult.
How do you know your DF doesn’t like this nurse?
If your DF has capacity, then you DO NOT have to be consulted. And yes, you should be showing the POA to any professional who asks to see it.

They need the documents on file. You can’t expect them to just believe you have POA. I had to DP get the solicitor to do certified copies for me after the hospital asked for it - I had to drive home after no sleep in A&E for hours to get it in case of issues so they would do what I wanted.

You should have been asked for proof from OPG of your LPA. If your dad hasn't required a capacity assessment during his stay because he has the capacity to make decisions then LPA means nothing and you are considered by the hospital to be a family member.

Many clinicians don't have full understanding of the MCA/LPA and may have been acting incorrectly wrt the LPA up to now.

Push it my dad was in hospital the treatment was nothing short of neglect and staff unbelievable rude .
My sister who works at the hospital cried when she found out what ward he was on it's notorious for terrible care.

Of course they should all to see the POA! Otherwise any Tom Dick or Harry could access medical information about your dad (or about YOU in a different situation). It's appalling that you've had access before without proof.
I have POA for my mum, and in reassured every time I'm asked for the documentation.

This is where POA is difficult because my Dad and my Mum have been unable to deal with my Dad's medical issues for years and it has made him very poorly as a result. This is why I have been dealing with it for a long time.

I got his disabled badge renewed after they'd let it lapse for a year, got a reduction in their ctx, arranged another bin from the council for the waste due to his incontinence, got SW involved, arranged private carers, pushed for district nurses, went to all consultant appts with them (neurology, diabetes, psychiatry, continence), pushed SW for more care again after a hospital admittance with DKA after he hadn't taken his insulin for days and Mum thought he had been and couldn't remember (this was 4 years ago!), pushed OT for months on different occasions for different and more adaptations in the home, sourced various charities for support and information, got his MP involved when it took 7 months for PIP to send out a change of circumstances form as he was on the lowest one and they lost my POA that I took into a job centre as requested by then as proof.

I have also arranged various cleaners and dealt with the fall outs when they didn't work out and got others in, got a fall alarm fitted, arranged for a larger wheelchair as he's too big for a standard nhs one, got a stairlift fitted, complained about the care at home he'd been receiving because they weren't cleaning him properly and he was getting sores due to his incontinence.

Spent a difficult time trying to get his finances in order and got him thousands back on plans he took out, including funeral plans, that weren't suitable or ridiculous things he'd subscribed to.

There is much much more I've done for them to the detriment of my own family, my mental health and my work.

If I hadn't done these things I believe hecould be dead already, or my Mum could.

I find it very hurtful for those who feel I'm overstepping to ensure my Dad is kept safe. I know my Dad doesn't like the nurse as he's been in tears over the phone to me about her and so has my Mum with the way she's been spoken to. I've found her to be fine when I've spoken to her.

They were planning on discharging him until I spoke to various medical professionals he's involved with in the community for their advice and they said x, y and z needed done before that so I spoke to SW and they've agreed and said he can't be discharged until then.

5 medical professionals have been asking me if I've thought of longer term care for him. I'm a little stressed with it all at the moment and just trying to do the best for both my parents.

Oh and also arranged for a befriender for company and a physio to go in. I have a spreadsheet with 16 tabs for each and every area of his life that needs dealt with. If I struggle to manage that then how the hell are they supposed to?

I feel heart sorry for those who have no one to advocate for them.

THIS
Correct summary right here, ignore all the confidently wrong alternatives

Thank you @entropynow and @RingBinderInjury

How do I go about getting them to listen to me? He absolutely doesn't have capacity with his diabetes regime, or any other of his meds, and hasn't for years.

If they explain why after reviewing the whole picture then that's fine if they think that's what best, they're the professionals. I'm not medically trained. I just want someone to talk to me and explain.

Didn’t you see the bit about his medication having been changed?

OP I’m really sorry you’re going through this. We had similar with my poor late dad a few years ago. Basically because we weren’t able to be there for a few days he was treated like shit-basic personal care like washing and shaving wasn’t even given! We kicked up holy hell when we got there and saw the state he was in. He needs you to advocate for him, so don’t take no for an answer

@QuestionableMouse Thank you. I ignored that post for the reason you pointed out.

I explained to the nurse that it had taken us months to get his diabetes settled after a change in his regime that wasn't working for years. She said he was high when he came in as if what I said about his diabetes being under control wasn't true. I replied he was likely high when he came in because he had covid and a blood infection (nurse on different ward told me that would the reason), plus he'd also been physically sick for 2 days previous to that and hadn't eaten or had insulin. That's when she asked for the POA but had been fine speaking to me previously.

Not unreasonable at all and it's so horrible to see your loved one being treated badly. My mother's end of life care was so shocking we opted to discharge her from hospital and care for her ourselves. Even then they refused us a wheelchair to use to get her to the car and wouldn't give any medication for the trip home. Hospitals are awful places.