applying for partnership?

[legalseagulls]

I work for a fairly large law firm albeit essentially inhouse (as we work exclusively for a major client of the firm, we don't bill our time etc). I've worked there for nearly 15 years and I've been an associate for about 6 years. I'm 25 years PQE.

Since Covid there's been no opportunity to make partnership applications, but I've just heard on the grapevine the process will be starting again soon. I can't decide whether or not to apply.

On the one hand, I think with my level of seniority and experience it looks very odd that I've not been a partner for years (most associates in our area are well under 10 years pqe, I trained quite a lot of them!) and it will be good for my CV as my current role is not secure and I may well be looking for another job in the next couple of years (certainly 3-5 years at most).

Set against that, my role is not one where I can grow new business (because I don't fee earn), show how much money I've made (ditto - both points are true for everyone in our area though). I have an excellent relationship with the client company, but I'm not sure how much sway that cuts. My role is technical/ supervisory, and I am well respected. But is that enough? That said most of my colleagues who work for the same client are in a similar position and I know several are applying (plus a number are already Partners) they are all 10 years or more less PQE than me.

The other thing is I interview badly. My associate interview was horrendous, I felt the partners (all male, I'd not met any of them before as they are based in a different office) were quite aggressive and unpleasant. That said, most of them have since left so I won't have to face them again. I interviewed the same day as a colleague who said how lovely the interview panel were and what a great chat she had with them. I don't know if that was BS, or maybe my face doesn't fit? (I've felt that most of my legal career tbh). I did get the associate role in the end but it was clearly not on the basis of my interview. One of the questions I was asked was what would you do if you were an associate? I explained, and they said well surely you can do that now? Still have no idea what the response to that question was supposed to be - I mean arguably I could do anything regardless of whether I was a solicitor, associate or partner!

The partnership position probably won't result in much more pay, maybe £5k a year? There are slightly better benefits and obviously the kudos of being a partner. And I know I will be steaming if I don't apply and loads of others do (and are successful). But of course then I might not be successful anyway.

WWYD in my position? I'd normally ask my DP about this as he has lots of wisdom on career matters but we split up recently and I am NC so can't even ask his advice as a friend :(

Sorry - meant to remove the voting option...

I'm not in the law field but it seems like you are a very good candidate. I would definitely go for it.

I think you don't lose anything by applying/throwing your hat in the ring.

Go for it! What do you have to lose?

I made partner only a few years PQE on the back of a large client I was exclusively working for and with whom I had a brilliant relationship. It was slightly different though, as I was billing my time, but still I definitely think you should go for it. You can say it's ofd for the client that someone they are dealing with of your seniority is not a partner, which I'm sure is true.

odd*

I can't see any reason not to go for it!!

My question would be how much extra liability, responsibility and hassle will it bring to you and is it worth it for the increase? Also firms (in some ways unfairly) will obviously look at fee earning as the driving factor in appointing partners, would it be hard to be a partner, assuming you get it and not a fee earner. Presumably this will be a salaried partnership, is there any path to equity? I often think salaried partners get a lot of the crap for little reward. Just a few thoughts.

Why would you want to be a partner of a firm that doesn't sound that great.
And you are planning on moving on?
Is partnership giving you anything extra ? Apart from £5k which I presume is not that much in the scheme of things.

I'm assuming this is salaried partnership? For £5k extra for salaried partnership you would be taking on a whole lot of extra administration and the expectations of what is required of you are likely to skyrocket.

I personally wouldn't. There aren't many benefits apart from the title and to be honest a salaried partner isn't really a partner anyway. Is there a reason you didn't get associateship until you were 19 years PQE?

I would go for it. Do your homework, address any weaknesses in your case at interview. Emphasise the great relationship you have with your client too. If you get it Great. If you don't, you've already done some prep for moving on and maybe this will be the push you need. Emphasis your qualities. I think people who are quietly competent get overlooked to those more extrovert. It's v difficult but maybe you know someone who could help with interview practice too.

Very little extra work or responsibility involved due to the structure, it's salaried not equity (there are only a handful of equity partners but quite a lot of salaried ones - 40+).

No one in my business area who's applying is a fee earner, because we all work for this one specific client, so we'd all be in the same boat, and there are several partners in our area (who became partners whilst in this existing, non fee earning set up).

Prior to working here I worked in inhouse roles, or in non traditional law firms where there wasn't a partnership structure as such. When I joined this firm and was working for a different client, it was made clear you could only apply as a partner or associate (as a non fee earner) if you held a certain managerial role. When I moved to work for this client nearly 8 years ago, it became clear this wasn't the case (either it never had been, or times had changed, I can't say), and I applied at the next available opportunity, which was 6 years ago.

My role will cease to exist in a few years - could be as much as 5, could be as little as 12 months. I'm not looking to move but I am a realist and there's only so long I can continue. I'm also aware my particular role is very niche and I will struggle to find anything similar elsewhere, I basically do a job I've created for myself!

Your role sounds quite unusual OP, I’m not familiar with the structure you’re talking about where you only work for one client and don’t time record etc. From my experience in a more traditional law firm structure, I would say gently that it’s highly unusual for someone to get to your level of PQE without having had the partner conversation. Most people don’t just decide to apply for partner - career development generally would have been discussed in annual appraisals and you’d know if it was a realistic prospect for you or not.

If you’ve never had those type of conversations then I’d say that it’s probably unlikely to happen for you - but as I say above, it does sound like you work in a very different kind of law firm to me so I could be wrong.

DH and I don't work in law, but finance, with a similar structure (well, I'm. Ow in industry, but was previously in practice). As a PP mentioned, getting on the partnership track is usually something that you would be encouraged to do as opposed to applying on your own. Certainly for DH, he really needed existing partners almost as sponsors to propose and support his process, he also needed a watertight business plan on how he would effectively bring in enough in fees to support his position and his team. The process was about a year long, and very gruelling - he dropped out on one occasion, and was unsuccessful on another, and is now enjoying his work-life balance in a sub-partner role instead!

I would definitely speak to existing partners to get them on side, enquire about the process, if there are skill sets you should be demonstrating, volunteering to take on additional responsibility outside of your normal day to day work. BUT if you feel you've got all that covered, I would go for it, what have you got to lose? Throwing your hat in the ring also demonstrates your ambition.

Do you mind if I ask what your title/role was before you were an associate? - ie if you're 25 PQE that's vastly experienced, and worked there for circa 9 years before being an associate? (Sorry if I'm misunderstanding but I'm struggling to understand that progression). Considering you say there are only a few equity partners but lots of salaried partners and the structure is it's only circa £5k more but equally not too much additional responsibility, it doesn't sound like there's much in the way of progression potential at your firm? At mine for example you typically become a senior associate at 5PQE, and then they also have a senior counsel concept which for some can be a stepping stone to partnership and for others might be a route they want to go down if they know they don't want to take on the additional management responsibilities of partnership.

But either way you've got nothing to lose by applying, so you might as well go for it. And maybe consider whether this firm does have the type of progression you want or whether you actually would be happy with salaried you partnership doing this current role without further change. But as I say, nothing to lose by applying either way, and it's all good practice putting yourself out there.

Before I was an associate I managed a team (of solicitors/ legal execs/ paralegals/client employees) - my title with the client was team leader, but with the law firm I was just a solicitor. Progression is odd because you can be a senior manager within our area without even being an associate, because the roles we hold for the client are not directly liked to our status within the firm.

It is an odd setup if you're only familiar with traditional law firms I think, particularly given that outside of our particular area, the rest of the firm operates on more established lines - so there are departments doing different areas of work, mainly contentious, partners in each area, all are based in the law firm's various offices. Whereas we only work from the client's offices (I've only been to the main firm about 15 times since I've worked here, some of my more junior colleagues have never been!).

It's very much like working in an in house legal role, except that we're employed by the law firm rather than the client.

How will you demonstrate that you can generate income though? Most law firms won't make up a partner unless there is something to gain from doing so. In your role I can't see what they have to gain and I think you put yourself in an even more vulnerable position than you already appear to be in . If the role will be disappearing in a few years then they'll already be thinking about removing you in that time period. If they put you up to partner and you can't hit your metrics then you'll risk being asked to move on.

It's the same for all of us working for this particular client, none of us fee earn or time record, we all spend 100% of our time working for this client and although the more junior staff have KPIs (set by the client not the law firm) they don't really apply to us.

So of the others applying in our area, whilst we can demonstrate ideas to improve the work we do for the client, there's no direct way to increase revenue (and that would have been the same for those in our area who have been made partner since I've been here)

I think I'm kind of talking myself into it. Nothing ventured etc

I should add that when I say my role will cease to exist, that applies to all of us working for this client, not just me. The client may employ a small number of people directly to work with it's own staff, but the rest of us will be redundant.