The government actually IS doing a consultation on bringing back imperial measurements!

[Kendodd]

I thought it was a joke.
AIBU to think this is a complete load of bollocks waste of money?

The questions don't even give you the option of saying just keep metric.
Example question -
For Consumers,

a) If you had a choice, would you want to purchase items:

(i) in imperial units?

(ii) in imperial units alongside a metric equivalent?

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1079711/choice-on-units-of-measurement-markings-and-sales-consultation.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjchIqM1pT4AhXIPsAKHWSZBW0QFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw05usEgoqbR2NHfgE3SzAYH

What's wrong with just having it both ways? Freedom isn't everything, there's consideration for your fellow human beings as well.
Anyway, the consultation is so beautifully rigged that we're bound to get your 'freedom'. The UK now has the freedom to shoot itself in the foot at every turn. It's going so well.

We didn't have it both ways, that's the point. Businesses were allowed to use solely metric, but not solely imperial.

The same question could be asked when threads are about paying by cash or by card.

A retailer has the choice to accept either a single method, the option for both and also the option for other methods
The law sees no problem with this

The law does see a problem in restricting the methods of paying a debt and therefore will not allow debt to be pursed in court if the denominations specified under legal tender have been refused

So why does the law interfere in the metrics used in sale?
Because of deliberate deception and short measures throughout history, and therefore laws have existed for over 1000 years controlling what metrics businesses must use in trade.
These do not prevent a business from using any metric that they choose provided the industry standard metric is clearly displayed

"But businesses were allowed to use only metric. But not only imperial."

There has to be legal clarity in weights and measures . That principle goes back to Magna Carta.
The metric price was the real, legal price and the Imperial price was merely supplementary information for the benefit of the customer. It was allowed, but only if it was not more prominent than the real price. If a conversion error occurred the metric price was the actual price.

Trading Standards had been preparing for years and had replaced all their calibration equipment with metric ones, costing tens of thousands of pounds, and the manufacturers stopped making them. If Imperial becomes legal TS will (at least initially) have no capability to detect and prosecute fraud. If they do manage to source Imperial calibration equipment it will cost a lot to buy and the ratepayers may not be pleased.

@L353A1 Thanks for that explanation - calibration and short measures are quite good enough a reason for not having Imperial only, not to mention the cost to the taxpayer of calibration equipment.
But of course rabid free marketeers would be all in favour of short measures and no scrutiny. It's enterprise, innit?

How many people are there who are intellectually unable to handle both things side by side and work out how much things cost/weigh?

Actually, that's a serious point. It's entirely possible that Brexiteers weren't able to do the arithmetic needed, so wanted a return to a single measurement they remember from their youth. That might also explain why they lacked the critical thinking that would have told them the chances of getting anything they want from a Tory government were vanishingly small.

I hear a lot more people say they can't understand how "old money" worked and don't know how many ounces are in a pound or pounds in a stone, than I hear people who can't understand the metric system.

Tell an American your weight in stone ...

I hear a lot more people say they can't understand how "old money" worked and don't know how many ounces are in a pound or pounds in a stone, than I hear people who can't understand the metric system.

Well, you would given that metric has been the standard for decades. Why is this a surprise to you? Metric is the global standard. Imperial is dying along with the population that knew nothing else or were raised in both. That's just how the world is.

FWIW I am 55 and grew up in the Netherlands, so fully metric. I have absolutely no trouble converting between the two, it's basic maths that I can do in my head. Maybe the standard of functional maths teaching in the UK is what you should be getting het up about rather than 'freedom'?

I've had to teach remind people older than me how L.s.d. worked[1].

The thing is, these discussions border on the religious. Try telling a die-hard Brexiteer that a recipe calling for a pint will work with 568ml, and they can get quite cross. Which would be alright if they could work with half a quart. But that just leads to more ill temper. And I have met people who insist they know how to work in imperial who haven't a fucking clue what 20[2] fl. oz. make

[1] I'm not quite as old as that. But I do like history.

[2] and if you want a longer argument, remind them that to Americans, a "pint" is 16 fl. oz. Because if there is one thing the US won't be outdone by the UK on, it's harking back to the dim and distant past. (As the recent laws in Tennessee and Texas show).

If imperial is dying, let it die because people choose to stop using it. Not because the government locks people up for using it. Imperial measurements are still widely used in day to day life. Pints of beer, pints of milk, nobody talks about their height or weight in general conversation using metric.

I am fluent in both Imperial and metric ( yes even down to how many chains in a mile) but people even struggle with metric weights nowadays.

I was roundly told off in Sainsbury's for asking for half a kilo of cheese on the deli counter as apparently I should have asked for 500g... Sainsbury's only work in g apparently (although the cheese was actually priced in kilos of course as it has to be by law).

@Florenz milk and beer had exemptions while we were still in the EU...

And yes, people still talk in imperial, and that's fine. So let them do the conversions in their head, maths is good for the brain. Add to that the conversation is more about height and weight of people, not goods. That will probably be the last thing to go and that's fine. Meanwhile let's just have both units on things in retail, the way we have done for decades now.

I have no sympathy for the so-called metric martyrs because by using imperial only scales, they could very easily have given people short weight. And that is the reason why they were sentenced as they were - they put themselves outside the reach of Trading Standards and that is not acceptable.

@Elphame I think the Sainsburys issue you experienced is down to the functional maths problem the UK has.

If imperial is dying, let it die because people choose to stop using it. Not because the government locks people up for using it.

That literally never happened.

Imperial measurements are still widely used in day to day life. Pints of beer, pints of milk, nobody talks about their height or weight in general conversation using metric.

There is a concept of "colloquial" units. Amazingly even in France, you can ask for "une pinte" in a hangover from pre-revolution life. However, you will get 500ml.

I was roundly told off in Sainsbury's for asking for half a kilo of cheese on the deli counter as apparently I should have asked for 500g... Sainsbury's only work in g apparently (although the cheese was actually priced in kilos of course as it has to be by law).

That has less to do with the law on weights, and more to do with making sure the less bright customers can't compare prices. It amuses me to see items on the same shelf (and sometimes from the same manufacturer) priced variously in £/Kg or pence/100g or £/100g and pence per Kg.

But even then, it's easier to work with than pence/oz compared to £/lb. Although if you are feeling particularly daring you could play with shillings per cwt and £s per stone.

The other day my scales accidentally switched to ounces. I couldn't understand. God knows how many walnuts I ate, 50 grams I think. Too many. I got it working again

Depending on the recipe (or packet 😀) I'll measure in fl. oz. because I damn well know that when they say "300ml" it's really 10 fl. oz.

To be fair the US system of cups'n'sticks is much more kitchen friendly. After all cooking is really about ratios, not absolutes.

And no, a pint is not "a pound, the world around". But please don't tell an American. They don't believe in English pints.

(Goes off singing
...
Hong Kong dollars and Indian cents
English pounds and Eskimo pence
...

(

The threat of imprisonment was there. If market traders had refused to sell in metric, had continued to sell in imperial, and had disregarded the fines levied on them for doing so, eventually they'd have been sent to prison. For selling apples by the pound, as had been done in Britain since time immemorial. Ridiculous.

I don't know about 'time immemorial', @Florenz . I mean, the Saxons, Romans, Celts and the like would have used quite different measurements. Times change. I have zero time for people who want to keep doing things the same old way 'because we've done it since time immemorial'.

And all the 'metric martyrs' had to do to comply with the law was display both measures. It's pathetic that they couldn't do that. Bunch of bloody Luddites.

Metric is the global standard. Metric makes more sense. Metric is grounded in science.

If "Time immemorial" is all you have to support your argument then maybe we should also lose female suffrage and the rights of women to own property ?

Also marital rape, slavery, all kinds of discrimination, marriage equality and the legalisation of homosexuality? Oh, and the Abortion Act. The possibilities are stupid endless.

There really is such a thing as toxic nostalgia and it is a common disease in the UK.

Shame that the metric martyrs weren’t all about their rights to sell in measurements as had been done since ‘time immemorial’ as one case was about selling draught beer by the litre when they should have been selling by the pint.

Had they listed prices in both metrics then they would have been legal …… except for those using imperial scales which were uncalibrated and illegal long before the pesky EU became involved with standardisation

Can't see why both can't be used equally, and any laws adapted to provide for this. A non-problem really.

As an unintended consequence it might help reduce the obesity crisis in some way - a pound of mince is less than half a kilo, so you eat a bit less.

Sounds daft but I remember way back ordering a half-kilo of cheese in Spain and was handed a huge lump when what I really meant was half a pound.

Just a thought.

There has to be one standard measurement system for the sale of goods by weight or volume to protect consumer confidence and ensure fair dealing. Otherwise you have to maintain and manage two entirely independent measurement systems and therefore you double the cost of managing this for all of the trade and metrological organisations tasked with doing so. No-one will fund that.

So, if you are working in a legally metric system and allow selling only in imperial you are then relying on a calculated conversion for comparison, conversions between imperial and metric measurements are inaccurate by their very nature. For example, how many grams are in an ounce exactly? 28? 28.5? 28.35? 28.34952? The answer is actually that all those numbers are an approximation. If one person is using a conversion factor of 28g and another is using 28.5g how long before that difference starts actually making and financial difference - not actually that long. You'll then find that shrewd traders will use whichever measurement is most financially advantageous to them or use conversion factors that favour them.

So you might think that it doesn't matter if Ethel buys a pound of carrots, but when we are talking about the scale of the supply chains for goods in our economy it makes a huge difference.

There is no need to amend any laws to use both imperial and metric measurements.

There is one official measurement, prices must be clear using that measurement but can also display the other measurement

Scales etc must be calibrated and certified in the official measurement but can show the other

Milk and beer are sold both by the litre and by the pint. So it can be done quite easily.