In thinking Managers shouldn't stop staff having card tips?

[Tipsless]

I work for a small restaurant, it's owned by a husband and wife team.

The DH has taken early retirement from some sort of Civil Service role.

He's now taking a larger role in the business and is there every day.

The DW has run it quite happily for several years. Obviously it's been hard recently but business is picking up again and it seems to be in a solid state now.

DH has come in like a bull in a China shop, and is scrutinising every penny. Down to precise portion control - weighing salad leaves for garnish 🙄. We have to take our own pens in to write with. We have to pay for sodas off the tap now at 85% of retail.

The staff have now been told that as there is a fee to the business in every card transaction, we can now only accept tips with cash.

I'm really not sure what the fee is, but informal chats within the staff have established we'd be happy to have the card tip minus whatever fee is involved.

Not many people carry cash now, so we're seeing a real downfall in tips.

AIBU to think this is Unreasonable of the management?

There are so many jobs around. Its a perfect time to go somewhere you're respected.

I’m glad you’ve reminded me to pay tips in cash or at least ask the staff if they get the tips before putting it in card. Plenty of hospitality jobs maybe it’s time to move jobs.

Just to say, it's not just the transaction charge (so a % of the transaction value, plus a fixed rate + the machine rental) but the tip on the card would also attract a 20% VAT deduction. So all in all, you will be much better to encourage your customers to tip you in cash....

Yep! Time for a new job! He's not much of a business man if he doesn't even realise this!

Yes I think it might be time to move on.

It was such a great place to work, but morale has dropped since Pernickity Paul has joined full time 🥲.

Just get a new job OP, it's not worth it. I work in hospitality and recruitment has been so difficult for the past 2 years, I'm sure there are plenty of jobs in your area.

Yes, move on I'd say and also be clear about exactly why you are going. Surely most people are adding tips on to the meal payment transaction anyway so no extra costs?

There are plans to make this illegal, not sure how far the legislation has got though...

www.gov.uk/government/news/all-tips-to-go-to-staff-under-government-plans-to-enhance-rights-of-2-million-workers

The tips thing seems harsh, but implementing stock control to minimise business losses is a strange thing to be annoyed at him about...

Weighing to ensure portion control is common, particularly when training staff tto get used to what a properly measured portion looks like. And drinking postmix from the tap for free is theft....

Agree that its short sighted to risk losing good staff in the current market over this.

But the truth is that its a very hard time for restaurants and it could well be that they're struggling to make a profit. Their ingredients bill, utility costs etc will also have hugely increased, so prices will need to rise, at a time when many of their customers are seeing a squeeze in their disposable income so might cut back on eating out.

But it's also worth understanding the costs for accepting card payments. Different card machines charge in different ways and it can vary depending on what type of card it is.

Historically, those supplied by banks charged a machine rental fee and a fee per transaction.

Debit cards were always a fixed amount, eg 40 pence. Good if people are spending tens of pounds as trivial in the transaction and doesn't increase for bigger spends. Not good if people use a card to pay for half a lager, as that's most of your profit gone.

Credit cards charged a percentage (usually around 1-2%) with no minimum, so the card transaction for that half a lager might cost 5 p, but for the whole table bill could be a couple of quid or more and obviously a small percentage of the tip is taken up in the card fee. American express is often a higher percentage, which is why many places won't take it.

The new style card machines are often bought outright for not very much, eg £50 and generally charge the same percentage with no minimum for both credit and debit cards. While the percentage might be slightly higher, there's no rental charges for the machine. However, from my observations as a customer, these machines aren't as reliable as you'd like, and I can remember a few times when they haven't worked and the restaurants etc have only been able to take cash (or one inventive place I was at was accepting bank transfers) so you'd have to consider if there was a cash machine very close by that you could send people to, or accept bank transfers as a back up.

If the restaurant has an old style card machine contract with a bank, then reviewing whether they're getting the best deal in the modern market would be a nice project for Pernickity Paul to occupy himself with and perhaps leave his staff to get on with the task of keeping customers happy so they continue to eat at his restaurant. :-)

It's not theft to take a drink if you have permission to do so from the boss.

Postmix drinks probably cost hardly anything, the mark up is enormous. Maybe the DW was perfectly happy for people to have a couple of free drinks at work as long as they didn't drink gallons of the stuff on every shift.

Tips paid by card aren’t subject to vat unless someone is doing things wrong or has a crap system where they can’t seperate out tips from sales so have to treat everything as sales

The restaurant I work for had to stop staff having any drinks on shift - no discount just not allowed. This was because some of the staff were literally drinking it all day, every day so I wouldn't be too annoyed about that. But yes I think it is wrong to stop you getting card tips and I would be looking for a different job, I rely on tips in order to get by each month so it wouldn't be feasible for me to continue if it wasn't for tips.

Move on to somewhere else and let them know why.

I would get persnickety right back and ask for a tool allowance to be added to pay to account for providing your own pens to write with.

No pens? Cant take order then can you?

This is why I carry cash - apart from buying plants in random plant stalls - so that I can leave cash tips for waiting staff.

Can you get hold of a pen with the logo of another business and use that?

Bring your own pens? Fuck off. They should be providing everything you need to do your job, if they are specific about things it's on them.

The drinking - meh. Some places don't mind, some do. Some employees take the piss. Are you allowed tap water?

Also agree that portion control etc is sensible in the catering industry and i don't know anyone (lots of friends in the biz) who doesn't regularly check that and other things to maximise profit. It is good practice.

But. I would look elsewhere. and when you leave tell them why.

I think bank transfers could become a good way for restaurants to avoid fees.

Especially now that most people have mobile apps and can ping it across. They could offer a percentage off the meal as an incentive to get people used to it.

Well, I'd leave. It's summer. You're an experienced wait staff and can get another job somewhere else and tell them why.

Try going up to silver service for a bit more money. Or use your transferrable skills to find an office-based role.

That company are taking the piss.

Banks would love it too. It would mean they could shrug off a shed load of legal protection you get when you pay with transaction fees.

Not so sure the changes in the law are set to happen now. They're a little too close to red tape that has suddenly become unfashionable.

Oh no, I pressed the wrong button! YAabsolutelyNBU

@BarbaraofSeville I'm afraid your card transaction fees are somewhat dated... practically all are done on a % of value + a # pence per transaction (debit cards are generally cheaper at

Sadly a job you enjoy can be spoiled very easily and that’s when it’s time to move on. I would be leaving, and making sure the wife knows why.

I managed tips whne I owned a restaurant and unfortunately you would have to pay tax on card tips. He is protecting himself here it is very, very dodgy ground.

the rest of it he sounds like an absolute dick stain. To pp soda from a tap costs pennies. My staff drank it all day everyday and it did not impact at all, except accounting for it during wastage. If it’s not costing him pennies he is being totally ripped off by a merchant, which he probably deserves.

i hope you find something nicer op!