Who was unreasonable regarding plane seat ?

[planerider]

Inspired by another thread.

This happened a few years ago, but it annoyed me.

The flight was around 7 hours long. I had paid extra to have the exit seat in economy, as I was suffering from a bad back. I paid quite a lot extra for the seat, it's something I try to do, as I have back problems and it helps.

The woman behind me had quite a big child on her lap during the flight and was sat next to the child's father.

Because of this, I was unable to recline my seat for the entire flight. I tried very gently reclining it a little at some stage ( before I had seen the child ) but she was angry and swore, so I put it upright.

Who was unreasonable here ? Or do we generally think anyone reclining their seat is unreasonable ? I tend to recline my seat on very long flights, when the lights are dimmed for sleeping, as do most others on those flights. I don't recline on short hall.

In the 80s there was more room to recline. Economy is much more cramped than it used to be. Airlines are always looking for ways to squeeze in more seats.

I would’ve reclined it. She was free to recline hers in response. It’s what happens when you have a 2 year old on your lap - it’s uncomfortable. If it was my comfort or hers, I choose mine.

Well yeah but that's probably more aimed at the situation. She's stuck with a child on her lap for 6-7 hours and now there's even less space.

This isn’t true at all, you can sit with the child in your lap of hire a CARES seatbelt harness to have them in their own seat

The airlines say children must be over 12 months to be sat in a harness - believe me when I say I will definitely be using one when my baby hits that age! I did buy an extra seat for her she just legally wasn’t allowed to be in it!

The Jolie 360 is rear facing for babies, but can be turned round to forward facing for toddlers - it lasted DGD from birth upto 4 years! Get one from birth and travelling on planes is no problem!

Pretty sure these can’t be used on a plane - they have to be certified for airline use and it’s about how they are strapped onto a seat. Do let me know if you have used one as when I looked online it sounded like you are very limited in your options - airlines also specify a maximum width which makes most seats too wide. When I researched it there was a Britax one and one other I found that were forward facing and airline approved (technically too wide but someone said they had success bringing one) but then couldn’t be used in cars in the uk or eu as a result. I was tempted to buy one second hand as I really didn’t want to hold her that long but then I would have been juggling with a 7kg baby, heavy car seat and nappy bag through the airport on my own. Neither airline had the buggy waiting for me when I arrived so I had to carry the baby and our stuff through the airport and definitely wouldn’t have managed a car seat too.

It does seem like the airlines would prefer babies to be on laps as they make it very difficult to be in their own seats. I do think there is something broken with society when people only think of themselves when they travel and get angry at people for having babies - it is the airlines faults for making the spacing smaller and making it difficult for people to travel with children - not the fault of a tiny baby or the person who had them. Also just because something has a function doesn’t mean it has to be used! Your driving seat reclines - there would be a lot of crashes if we all reclined our seats because “they were made to recline”.

The thing is it's slightly easier and more comfortable to get up using the seat head in front than twisting around to use your own, and since the message of the thread is that you should put your own comfort above all else on a plane why shouldn't I do that?

Do let me know if you have used one as when I looked online it sounded like you are very limited in your options - airlines also specify a maximum width which makes most seats too wide.

No, I haven’t. DGD sat on the knees of her parents on flights. I was simply pointing out some car seats can be used rear and forward facing, whereas pp seemed to think it was either or! I suspect babies are not safe, sitting on parents’ laps because their parents’ upper bodies could be thrown forwards in a crash and squash the baby, in the event of a crash; just like adults would be safer sitting, facing backwards. However that is just a guess, I am no expert!

Strange argument re driving seats reclining!! Not quite the same as relaxing in an airline seat doing nothing! And it’s ironic saying people are only considering themselves when they want to recline. That person, on a short haul flight, may have connected in on a very long haul flight. They could have all sorts going on, could’ve been to a funeral over there, could be exhausted. I’ve seen that many, many times as crew. Yet your world is just resolving around your baby. Ps, May I suggest a really cheap, folding buggy for travelling. It’s much more likely we can find somewhere in a wardrobe to squeeze them onboard, so you’re never stuck if the ground handlers don’t bring them up. Hope that helps.

As for it being illegal to have a toddler in it’s own seat, that’s only for take off and landing, or when seatbelt signs are on. I’ve known plenty of passengers pay for a seat for their toddler.

And it’s ironic saying people are only considering themselves when they want to recline. That person, on a short haul flight, may have connected in on a very long haul flight. They could have all sorts going on, could’ve been to a funeral over there, could be exhausted. I’ve seen that many, many times as crew. Yet your world is just resolving around your baby.

Well, either everyone should be considering others or no one, surely? It's fine if people would prioritize their own comfort over someone else's, but I don't then see why anyone would be expected to care even slightly about a stranger being tired, let alone to think that it's more important than their child?

Personally I'm fine with people saying they don't care that I'm tall with long legs and that I should be forced to pay extra for a seat than accommodates that, but I feel the same about their bad back - could not care less.

You don't need a child on your lap to be annoyed by the person in front of you reclining their seat. You have such a small amount of space anyway that it feels like an invasion of your personal space. It impedes the use of your tray for food, drink, ipad etc.

The seats should be fixed for shorter flights and for longer they should have a fixed shell which the seat mechanism moves within, thus not effecting anyone behind you.

There’s a difference between prioritising your own comfort by using your seat the way it was designed to be used, and prioritising your own comfort by using someone else’s seat, in a way that it wasn’t designed for, and in a way that will undoubtedly disturb them.

If someone reclines in front of me, I lose a little bit of air space, that’s it. If someone behind uses my seat to pull themselves up I get the whole top half of my body pulled backwards and then jolted forwards as they let go. Surely you can see the major difference between the two actions?

People who use the seat in front to get up often do that whether or not the seat in front is reclined anyway. On the whole, I have sympathy for people who need the extra help to get up and wouldn’t mind being disturbed, but these people never apologise. They don’t even seem to recognise that they’re physically moving someone else about when they do it, never mind acknowledge the intrusion. That’s way more rude then just reclining your own seat.

I don’t quite get your point there? I was saying, other people, as well as those with children have their own circumstances- you can’t grumble about them nor considering your situation if you’re not considering theirs.

It’s a shame seats have become so close, it would be nice to go back to the old days where they were much more spacious, but that’s never going to happen. Airlines are scaling down seats every time they “redo” a cabin.

As for it being illegal to have a toddler in it’s own seat, that’s only for take off and landing, or when seatbelt signs are on. I’ve known plenty of passengers pay for a seat for their toddler.

I was travelling with a 6 month old - she couldn’t sit up unaided. Even now at 8 months she regularly topples when sitting unaided so still couldn’t be in a seat. Also re buggy - I bought a cheap folding stroller for travel and they still sent it to the conveyor belt! I never appreciated how hard it is to travel with a baby until I had my own! Thankfully there are just a few more months til she can use a Cares harness!

I do also appreciate it is safer for a child in a child seat - it is madness that it is so hard to bring them in one! I would have paid extra if the airline provided a baby seat or basinet!

The comment re reclining a drivers seat is aimed at the people saying they recline their seats because they are made to recline like it’s an obligation. It is a crazy argument - “sorry I was speeding but my car was made to go this speed” would be another comparable argument.

No it isn’t comparable because it’s not a safety issue!

Whether the child is capable of sitting in a separate seat or not is a totally different subject to whether it’s illegal or not. A child has to be on the knee for take off and landing until it’s two. But it may well be possible for them to sit up unaided for a fair period of those two years.

On “my” airline you could book a bassinet or child seat (if you got in early enough). We always did everything we could to help parents. Most people travelled with kids perfectly fine. Occasionally you got some so incapable of coping with anything beyond their expectations you literally wondered how they got through life.

Anyway, time to bow out now, I feel like it’s getting a bit silly with some of the replies.

From a cabin crew perspective.
it’s a seat feature that causes a lot of issues. You did the right thing booking extra leg room, 7-8 hour flight is a long time, so you want comfort, especially if you have a bad back. As for the family behind, there was no reason to have a large child on her lap for a long period of time, unless there was upset issues due to being a nervous flyer, or the child having any additional needs. You’re not unreasonable to recline your seat during a flight (although people behind never like it) as long as you put it in the upright position for meals and drinks.

I've always thought that the cabin crew like passengers to sleep as it makes their job easier. Reclining seats and warm temperatures make people sleep more easily?

Yes, what is it about people who use YOUR seat to get themselves up. They seem totally unaware of what they are doing and yes - they have also grabbed my hair and seem confused as to how that happened!

You do wonder how some people get on in normal life!

I was on a 10hour night flight back from South Africa and the woman behind me kept tapping me on the shoulder and telling me not to recline my seat all the way. The flight attendant saw what was happening and told the woman that I had every right to recline the seat the whole way as long as it was in the upright position during mealtimes. I am too shy to have made a fuss, but was very glad the attendant stepped in.

I was on a 10hour night flight back from South Africa and the woman behind me kept tapping me on the shoulder and telling me not to recline my seat all the way

That's a reasonable request in my opinion. She didn't tell you not to recline your seat. You're obviously not that shy if you ignored her requests?

Fortunately, when I’m sat on a plane in my reclined seat, I’m not expected to fly it! I doubt the pilot’s seat reclines so they can have a quick nap 😂

I agree. If I’d been that woman I’d have insisted on being moved.

Without meaning to be gory, in the event of a plane crash, very few passengers actually survive.

I'd probably just have let my small child be a pain in the arse in the cramped space. Or passed to father and let the whole plane hear them scream because at thay stage they only wanted mum.

It's selfish to recline for an entire flight when there is a small child on a lap between you.

@Workwork21 but it's literally a feature of the seat. There to be used as the person sitting on it sees fit🤷🏻‍♀️Pay for extra room/extra seat for the child and then it's a non issue.

This isn’t true, plane crashes have a survival rate of 90-95%

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-45030345.amp

This isn’t true, plane crashes have a survival rate of 90-95%

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-45030345.amp