Negative Teacher

[FrazzleDazz]

DD 13 has come out of school today with her end of year report, overall it's positive however I'm really shocked at one subject teachers comments. She has always been quite negative but it has upset DD as it's in an area she's keen to progress in for further/higher education. She has alluded to DD not
making enough effort etc when we have witness first hand the extra work she has been putting in, she now also has a tutor (at her request) once a week to help support her. Ordinarily I wouldn't even need to ask if I should raise it with the school but it appears that her form tutor and HM have supported teachers comment but saying take note etc. I feel really upset for her as I want her to aspire to whatever she wants at this age not be told to not even try! AIBU to feel really upset with the school, or should DD be told what she wants to do is unrealistic? Sorry for no specifics too outing!

@Luluuuuuuuuuu85 thank you, yes I want to speak to the teacher as like you say she might not know what she's doing. She can be quiet but that doesn't mean she's not trying, however I'd like to near her perspective in more detail.

@Eightiesfan definitely no copy and paste here as it's all very specific, says DD has told
teachers about her aspirations etc.

"It's also worth bearing in mind that some kids honestly don't understand how much harder they could be working in class. As far as they're concerned they're doing enough, and yet every time the teacher looks up, they're not doing any work! (this is a conversation I have at least 10 times a day: "Sam? Could you get on with your work please?" "Oh WHAT?? I AM working! I've done two whole questions!! And why aren't you picking on Alex?!!!")"

Echoing this with every FIBRE of my being. I have KS3 students with wonderful high aspirations. The same students who I have to remind to open their books, write the title, date, answer the questions on the board, finish their sentences... every. Single. Lesson.

(I have plenty who do the work, and who also have high aspirations!)

It may seem unkind, and your DD's aspirations are great - all credit to her - but if she isn't putting in the effort in class, the comment is probably designed to shock her into considering her behaviours and the effect they will have on her dreams.

As a teacher I'd say its bad form but equally it's difficult as professionally we need to be realistic without extinguishing hope.

For what it's worth, at 16 I was told by my specialist Subject teacher that I should give up as I had no 'talent or flair and am just not academic enough to achieve anything in the field'. I ignored him, went to uni studying the subject and now have a PhD in the subject, have travelled the world working in the field and am now fully qualified to teach it.

@HereBeFuckery I fully appreciate this and if I thought this was the case I'd be the first one telling her she needs to put the work in, however I've watched her sit and make flash cards for days and ask for a tutor and she's been doing an hour of extra work off her own back most nights doing reading etc so I just feel so sad for her that she's actually putting the effort in (at home that we have witnessed). Of course I will speak to the teacher and gauge what they mean by their comments it's just so frustrating to see her dreams being dismissed at 13!

@WithOneLook Exactly the attitude I want her to have in whatever she wants to do in life!

Can you post what she actually put?

Many teachers are over generous with their comments and it could be that it’s the other teachers that aren’t being truthful.

Your DD may also not make much effort in lessons or be talkative etc which is impacting her work in class.
It may be something simple like she is sat next to someone who is distracting her or she can’t see the board etc.

You should definitely speak to her, even if it’s just an email. Then you can discuss it with your DD.

What subject is it and is there anyway she can do her chosen career route in a different way?
It could be that she just genuinely doesn’t get it and the teacher is just being honest.

@FrazzleDazz it's worth checking with your DD - has she told the teacher that she's putting in so much effort? Sounds daft, but the teacher may not realise or not know how hard your DD is working. I know from standing in front of 30 kids it isn't always simple to deduce what's going on!

Second, if this much effort (which sounds amazing, and she sounds like a great student) isn't yielding results, it might be worth the teacher, you, DD and the tutor all having a conversation about where to apply all her effort. She might be working super hard but not focusing on the right areas or making the classic revision mistake of testing herself on what she's secure on!

Maybe your DD is putting effort into the wrong thing? Making flash cards, for example, can be a time filler rather than actually helping cement knowledge.

If she has a tutor and is genuinely putting a ton of effort in and is still not doing as well as expected in tests, maybe you should consider that the teacher is right that this might not be the subject for DD?

I do think the message given to young people that they can do or be anything leads to problems.

Of course, you can't be or do anything no matter how much you dream of it or, even, how much you effort you put in.

I could work at calculus until my arse fell off, I could sweat at geometry until my brain overheated. I could get in private tutors in these areas and work all day at the extra work they gave me to do.

All that might make me ok, average, but unless I have some aptitude for the subject, that's what I'm going to stay average and it will be impossible for me to get a job as chief rocket builder at Nasa.

I can knock my rocks off learning to play the piano, practice so much it drives the neighbours to distraction but if I haven't got talent then at best it will make me average and I'm not going to get a place studying Chopin at a conservatoire.

Effort is good-it can make you better than you would be if you made no effort- but with little flair, talent or aptitude then don't dream of being an astronaut or a concert pianist.

All, alas, can not have prizes and we are setting our children up for a fall even bitterness when they realise that their average ability in a particular subject, no matter how much effort is made, just isn't going to be good enough.

As a form tutor I've had to have difficult conversations with students about their expectations, but these are with older students, e.g. sixth formers predicted CCC who are planning to apply to medicine/Oxbridge. But I think year 9 is too early to push students away from a particular path.

It would be worth having a conversation with the teacher about DD's effort though. It may be that her effort's in the wrong places (working hard on tutoring but not homework, for example), she's not concentrating in class, a misunderstanding on either side, or something else.

I do agree with a lot of this. I have seen it lead to problems where the young person suddenly finds that the thing they have worked their socks off for years is still not attainable and they give up totally.
In some ways knowing that at 13yo is better than coming up to GCSEs and having a meltdown over the exams because they realise that they can't achieve the grades they need.

Op:
You need to look into it and find out what the situation is:
It could be that the teacher is right, or they could be wrong. It could be that they're drawing on years of experience and feel it's better for your dd to think about what else they could do around that subject that they have a chance of doing. It could be that they tend to always be negative about people going for that occupation.

If they're just being pessimistic, then tell her to use that comment to work hard and prove the teacher wrong.
But if the teacher may be right. In which case encourage your dd to find a similar ambition that can use what she loves about her original ambition and that she can attain.

Thanks all for the comments, had a productive chat with the school & also with DD about expectations etc. She came home today with the best mark in the class which she was really pleased with, teacher in question also recognised this and praised her effort, hopefully onwards and upwards!

My DS has a swim.coach like this. He is always putting DS down, doesn't believe in him at all. Makes it clear he thinks he'll never amount to anything.

DS has decided that he's now going to train twice as hard (he's only 10 and already swims 6 sessions (of 1.5 hours each) every week, getting up at 5am twice in the week) so he can win an Olympic medal one day and stand on the podium and say "Well you were wrong X". (He also wants to call him a 'pooh' when he stands on the podium! not sure that's a great plan!!)

I don't know if DS will get his dream of doing well in swimming, but I'm impressed he is not getting down about the coach, but using it instead to fuel him to work harder and show the coach he's wrong.

Maybe your DC can take a similar approach. One day she will prove her teacher wrong if she loves this thing enough and is prepared to work at it :) 👍

There are two things here. One is the "not enough effort". Teachers do get that wrong sometimes, especially with the quieter ones. I always used to begin parents' evening with "so what's he/she said about maths", because I didn't want to leap in with my comments if actually the child was in tears over their homework. At the meeting for my DD's most-hated subject, her teacher kicked off with "DD enjoys geography"!

The other issue is the message about whether she has the potential. Most kids do have the potential to get there eventually, but the problem is that the education system wants them to get there by 16. If the teacher thinks she is not on course to get the maths grade she'll need for science A-levels, it's probably worth flagging up. Of course, you're already taking the sensible step of getting her some extra help in maths. Does the teacher know that? It may make the difference, as you've still got plenty of time.

Be aware that there are alternative routes to A-level. It may be that in the long run, BTec Science may suit your daughter better than A-levels. It's far too early know or to be making decisions yet, but keep it in mind. A private school is unlikely to offer BTecs, so they may be more inclined to think in terms of A-levels or nothing!

I'd ask for a meeting/call with the maths teacher. Check out whether she's concentrating in lessons, what they think needs to change in terms of effort. Sometimes a child with a tutor switches off at school because they feel the tutor will solve all their problems - I'm not saying your daughter is doing this, but just check in case. Or she may just be a bit chatty, and the comment wasn't meant to mean that she makes no effort, just to warn her not to get distracted. Also ask the teacher if they know where her weaknesses are, although the tutor may be better able to establish this as they are working with her one-to-one. Often struggles with maths are down to something earlier on that wasn't fully mastered or understood - fluency with tables, really understanding fractions and their relationship to division, negative numbers are all common ones.

It's best if the tutor does not follow the topics your daughter is doing in school, but focuses on areas of difficulty and things they are not doing at the moment (which helps retention). Flashcards are not particularly helpful for maths (although there are some facts that need to be remembered) - what helps most is practising doing questions.