To not understand claims that life admin is 'not a thing'

[LabradorsInThePond]

I keep reading this on MN threads about organisation, time management etc. And that the life admin tasks of renewing insurances and checking mortgage rates can't take up that much time. But I spend a huge amount of time in the throes of life admin. We live a pretty normal, busy family life. I work 4 days in a professional role and can easily spend the 5th day (or at least half of it) in the throes of dreaded life admin.

My list tomorrow extends to twenty three separate items. None of which involve renewing insurances, but they do include buying clothing items (Scout shirt etc.), paying instrument hire, photocopying medical reports for school, booking airport parking, collecting worming tablets, booking a restaurant, buying zoo tickets, arranging a delivery of flowers for mum's birthday, an online grocery shop, buying a thank you gift, arranging a birthday party, booking a roofer, buying new windscreen wipers, emailing the GP, updating kids' Nimbl cards, finding a way to teach DS about dividing decimals, paying various people online etc.

None of these are yearly tasks, and next week there will be another 23 items to complete. It is relentless. DH does most of the house and long-term financial admin and he's also executing his father's too-complicated will, which makes my 23 items look like peanuts.

Do we just have an over-committed life, or does anyone one else find (what others consider non-existent) life admin burdensome and time-consuming? What am I doing wrong here?

It's either parenting, or just part of life.

Let's stop with this unisex nonsense.

It's mothering, and it's part of women's life.

I completely agree bump I don't want a generic tick box life, I actually want some things to be special, memorable, well planned and thought out. Our holidays are important to us. My family and friends are important to us, I am not going to order their presents whilst boiling a kettle!

And yes we can tell - I know when someone has put zero effort into stuff, it is plainly obvious who the kettle boilers are, which is fine for many things like booking in the dog groom etc, but if it is your child's 18th birthday or a friends' Christmas gift it is shoddy, looks shoddy - will be shoddy and rushed.
I would also feel stressed boiling a kettle, whilst paying a bill, whilst speaking to my mum and checking with dh where has got to with the to do list. Too much multi tasking creates stress, anxiety and mistakes.

Of course we can all make everything about 'efficiency' and speed, but then it also makes life utterly joyless and robotic. Speaking to a close friend, walking with the dogs on a sunny day, choosing decor, a child's gift or a weekend away becomes a tick box exercise with the only measure being how quickly you can get it done. Life is surely supposed to be more rewarding than that.....

coffee I actually went through the list before I posted on MN to see if I could reduce my life admin, I very much want to reduce - it was interesting to see it in black and white (and may I add nowhere near everything I do was on there) You said I could reduce it all down. Actually I couldn't. Someone still needs to take the kids to asthma checks, dentists, opticians etc. I have teen dc and they are ordering clothes, and sending them back - someone needs to keep a track of refunds (me) take the parcels to the post office etc. F&F need cards, presents, texts and the occasional visit/dinner out.

I am not going to drop friends just because we are busy, they are the one major highlight in my life! Ditto Christmas. Yes we can sit there with a microwave meal each and a string of tinsel - one present to open between us, but it is bloody joyless.
Everything I do with the exception of the basics like insurance, paperwork makes life a little better, more joyful, safer, healthier for my family and I.

I tried to take an axe to my list, metaphorically speaking and couldn't take anything out, despite your lengthy post to say otherwise. I tried.

Of course anyone can simplify their life by stripping out everything that makes it worth living like friends, holidays, parties and happy occasions as well as having and keeping a set of teeth, being able to see and breathe - someone somewhere is working very hard to make it happen in the back ground.

I did an experiment once of tearing up the to do list for a few weeks to see if I could reduce admin. The dog missed her jabs and was ill, I forgot almost everything at school like the charity boxes, the money for cake day, a friends' birthday, a sad milestone of another, no one paid the cleaner etc. It was surprising how quickly the wheels came off. Never again.

If you can have a simple life, with nothing in it, and still enjoy it - good for you - but most people want something more meaningful and joyful, more of a multi dimensional experience of life than simply existing.

Some people simply have busier lifestyles.

Looking at your list @Swayingpalmtrees most of it doesn't apply to me - one DC at university, no pets, small and scattered family, no cleaner, we don't exchange presents with friends and a deeply introverted DH who doesn't like socialising.

See I don’t get the ‘if you don’t think it’s a big deal you must have a joyless life’.

If my kids needs clothes we arrange a day and actually go shopping. Have lunch while we are out and make a day out of it. Might pick up and birthday present and a card while I am out etc. I don’t have send anything back, track refunds or anything if the sort. We do buy quite a bit on the internet, but rarely have to send anything back. It’s a bit more difficult with dd as he is autistic, but we make it work. And letting him feel the clothes means he will wear them.

As a family we have 4 hospital appointments in the next 2 weeks and the start of my bereavement counselling and our dentist appointment. They are on a calandar on the fridge. They don’t feel like a big deal. Same with the list of stuff that’s need for school. If it’s cake sale day it says in the calandar. Grab £1 out of the change jar, give it to the child. The kids were always taught to check the calandar as soon as they could read and take some responsibility for themselves where they could. Like taking a book back to school. And not the kids are 12 and 17 they know to add things to calandar too.

I think the main difference is actually how you view it. I see everything on your list as life. It’s not a list of jobs that I have to wade through.

My partner also shares the load, he has a couple of disabilities but does what he can. But anything I do for him I don’t see as task that needs to be got through. It’s things I do because partners support and such other. I don’t see it as a burden.

Like washing the clothes. I get up, take some down with me. Throw it in and have a coffee. After I am ready for work I get it out and out it out or in the on the airer. After work told What doesn’t need ironing. Iron the few bits that do and done. I do generally go for clothes that need minimal, if any, ironing.

I have been a single parent with no involvement from their dad, when the kids were younger and worked full time and didn’t feel weighed down by life then either.

It’s all about people viewing it differently. Not about how joyful or joyless someone’s life is.

Having multiple children makes a big difference
Have pets makes a significant difference
A large extended family makes a difference

All are quite small and manageable individually until you add them up, and then I feel tired just thinking about it.

Dh talks about escaping to the Hebrides on a regular basis.

If my kids needs clothes we arrange a day and actually go shopping

We don't actually have time to go shopping believe it or not.

I don't have a spare day to do that. Kids play lots of sport at the weekend and have fixtures, and so we would need to find a day in the school holidays. This week for instance, we are revising. We don't have a whole day to go out for lunch and shopping. So it would need to wait until July by which time they need an outfit for the end of term party/BBQ/Jubilee.

I am used to it, and I am prepared to do it to have fun things happening in our lives. I am aware I could cut out my friends, see my family once a year and then all I have to think about is a coffee and the washing, but I would miss them. They make it all worthwhile.
But it is tiring and boring sometimes as most will tell you on here, and I love going on holiday just escape life admin! Love downing tools and shutting it all down.

I have a very busy life. I just keep the "admin" as simple as possible. Amazon Prime is my best friend, terrible I know.

It’s just errands. I tend to do them every day so it’s spread across the week rather than one long day spent trying to catch up. Most are 5 min jobs max.

By the way I haven't even listed the laundry or washing. I have teen girls, they do help but we are do multiple washes a day.

Between you and your husband, you never ever have a day, not in any normal week, in which you could go in to town and buy some clothing?

To be honest if your life is that utterly overwhelming that you never have a day where you could go shopping and it gets ‘tiring and boring’ then I’d look at how you’re spending your time and if there’s anything that could be changed.

@honeybushbunch that’s beautifully summarised.

@Andromachehadabadday
Of course you are right that in many ways how we mentally catergorise an activity will affect how we perceive and value it. I think this is probably where the danger lies though in many ways.

For example, people have said that helping their child with homework isn't part of life admin but just 'parenting'. That buying flowers for a bereaved relative isn't life admin but 'life'. There is passivity implied in this, that one could do nothing and all these things would automatically get done because that is the default. In reality this is far from the truth. Somebody at some point has to made a conscious effort (no matter how small that effort is) to get something done or else it won't happen.

There are many many households in the UK where actually much of the 'life admin' listed in the thread doesn't get done at all or more commonly one person (normally the woman) is left with the vast majority of these tasks. I know this isn't the case in your household. Can you see how naming it and agreeing that it does take some effort and time (whether you're doing it when the kettle boils or having a dedicated admin session) is the first step towards ensuring that there is a fair allocation of work? People can then begin to make conscious decisions as a household as to the level of effort they want to put into tasks and actually consider whether the most efficient option is the best option or just the one that they feel forced to take due to time pressures that could be alleviated through a reallocation or through reprioritising of tasks

It seems to be the same handful of posters rushing onto the thread to tell us we are not really busy/doing it all wrong/efficiency lessons.

You don't know the circumstances of anyone's life, and why it is busy/not so busy. I wonder why it matters to you so much as to minimise in the way that you are. It is annoying.

I personally have very active sporty teens, that in itself creates hours and hours of work per child every week, each one needs a clean kit, driving to and from practice, driving to and from matches and fixtures, and then tons of washing at the end. I sometimes like to watch them to offer support which absorbs more time. I am glad they are so fit and healthy but it is more stuff to do. They have other hobbies that require my input, driving etc.

When the children were young, it was so easy - fixed routines, I could decide what we would do and slow down our lives easily. It is very different with teens that is all I will say. As some of you will find out!

Some people make mountains out of mole hills, I work with someone who is the same i dread to think how much of their time is spent on life admin. Me and DH do our own car insurance and MOT etc as we have a csr each for work, other bills are set to direct debit but if someone needs actively reviewing like home insurance DH normally does it. We do a grocery shop online then whoever is passing a supermarket will look if we need anything and ask the other person if they want anything. Appointments for DS go onto a calendar in the kitchen and if I can easily get it off work I'll write that and book it straight away, if he can he does. Phoning the bank etc do whilst doing something else like cooking dinner and just have the phone on speaker whilst it's ringing so it's not taking up additional time as such. DS has clubs at the weekend but if we need to go to town we make time to go together and have lunch or something as well, although mainly buy clothes online- I enjoy shopping so not fussed on doing this but DH would happily pick stuff up. When we bought our house we made a list of stuff we needed together and then got the stuff we needed ourselves like payslips and submitted them one evening. The only thing I really do myself is planning parties as I love it, but DH plans something for my birthday and we sort Christmas equally.

We both work full time, if I was part time I'd probably eek the tasks out for the sake of it to feel busy.

Can they not wssh their own kit if they're teens?

See I just don’t understand that.

tiu don’t have annual leave you can take in the school holidays? You never have a day where you can go off for the day?

I have a very senior job in a large company. Never, ever come across a situation where one parent can not take anytime off until the summer holidays. The vast majority of my own holidays are around the kids. But even then, when we do order off the internet minimal amounts go back. Certainly not enough to have to sit down and track refunds on.

Who said you had to cut friends out or not see family. My mum died last year. We had time together with dad and the kids every Sunday morning.

I have friends, but don’t see them as a chore or an admin task.

Today my day looks like this.

Kids getting up soon, ds is at his hobby. Though it’s training not playing. He got his kit out last night. I will cook the hot sandwiches in the hut we have at the pitch. It’s fun, you get to chat to people and it helps raise money. Quick clean up and then to club house, where I will socialise with my friends and ds with his while they sort player of the match etc. Back by 12ish.

I need to get to the Pharmacy, which is in the way. So a quick stop.

Dogs need walking and dd is staying at my dads tonight as she has an early start with friends tomorrow and he lives round the corner. So, when we get back I will have a cuppa while ds gets showered and changed and get the dogs in the car and take them to the woods. Then go see my dad (who I have already seen twice this week) drop dd off and visit him. I will need to quickly run into the supermarket for 3 or 4 bits for my dad. My brother and his kids will be visiting as well so I get to see him.

The aunt I am closest to is back in the country. I will see her tomorrow.

Dp is going out with his brother in law. So when me and ds get back he will probably play on his Xbox while I cook dinner. I need to order a card for my friends birthday which will be done on funky pigeon. Takes a couple of minutes. Will also check my work emails while cooking.

Then me and ds will sit down eat and then watch a movie. I haven’t done any washing. But the bathroom will be cleaned in between these things (after ds shower), kitchen will be given a clean after dinner. At some point this morning dp will hoover and mop the downstairs (wood floors) and give the rooms downstairs a clean.. He did the stairs and upstairs yesterday.

Non of this seems like a chore. Non of it feels like admin or a list of tasks that I must do. It’s an enjoyable day.

My dd had her first final a level yesterday. So plenty of revision here as well.

Tomorrow will be similar and I will pick dd up from dads and see him again. Or he might drop her off and have tea with us.

it’s a great weekend before a busy week at work where my teams have to do 5 days work in 3 days. All the prep has been done before over the last few weeks, so I am sure it will be fine. I also have my first session of bereavement counselling on Tuesday.

As I said, I don’t believe it’s because other people must have joyless lives or not do much. It’s about how you view it. Nothing I have on today feels stressful or admin or not enjoyable.

Between you and your husband, you never ever have a day, not in any normal week, in which you could go in to town and buy some clothing?

No, not when the dc are all free at the same time. I would have to take them individually - which is extremely time consuming, and not a good use of my time.

You won't have 23 tasks to do on a day off if you do nearly every task the moment it crosses your mind to do it, or in the next spare few minutes.

You also need to factor in the costs of life-choices in advance. "Admin" involving children or pets you decided to have don't count, for the purposes of garnering sympathy.

These are things that reduce my admin:-

Admin re. buying birthday presents does not exist, as far as presents for adults are concerned. I've opted out of the concept.

Before I even had internet I had learned how to protect my email address so I don't have to deal with spam. (Spam filters have since been invented, Google's is very good.) When I do get spam in my inbox, I always take the trouble to use the unsubscribe link, this always works. (Yes there was personal email before personal internet access.)

I don't generally have to fetch a credit card or type in a number to make an online purchase as the chrome browser saves all my details and autofills them anyway. (I usually have all my cards on my desk anyway, ironically the one I actually use isn't there, it lives in the car. I keep a car in the car so I never have to remember to take a card with me when I go out by car. When going out otherwise I remember to grab a card from desk, because I need it for public transport.)

I don't generally buy from anyone other than Amazon, which makes purchases quicker, easier and safer than they would otherwise be.

My groceries are delivered by Hello Fresh, I don't even have to think about what meals I'm going to have, I just cook whatever they choose for me. (I do sometimes override their meal choices, takes a few minutes and isn't a chore.) The total necessary weekly admin of buying groceries for cooked meals consists of opening the front door, taking in a large cardboard box, and packing the contents away in the kitchen. Packing away consists of transferring five numbered paper bags of ingredients from the box onto an empty cupboard shelf, and putting items from the cold bag into the fridge.

You don't know the circumstances of anyone's life, and why it is busy/not so busy. I wonder why it matters to you so much as to minimise in the way that you are. It is annoying.

As are the claims that if you don’t feel bogged down by life, you must have no friends, not see family and not do anything at all.

But that view still persists. There’s an assumption that because people view this must not have much going on. As you point out, people can’t know that because they don’t their what their lives are like.

So you do have a day free, just not a day where you can take every child at the same time. So you and your husband could organise clothes shopping between you, you just feel it would be inconvenient because you couldn’t take all the children together.

Not even say a singly appointment letter? Booking a GP a appointment or a hairdresser appointment or something? Remembering your overdraft / credit card?

Though having said that I do think a lot of people build up 'life admin' to something that it really need not be. I paid off my credit card whilst waiting for the train and ordered some bits from ASOS for a Jubilee thing. On the train I organised a quick mid-week food shop. Some people just like being 'busy'.

Definitely a thing but just hate it as a phrase, for me it's up there with making memories and pan frying!!!

tiu don’t have annual leave you can take in the school holidays?

We use all of our annual leave for actual holidays.

I didn't say my life was 'stressful', you describe it as that andro, just busy!
And this country's love of bureaucracy annoys me.
I lived overseas for many years, and it is nothing like this. We barely did anything but go to the beach at the weekend 😎

ps a lot of people get stressed with eg prioritising things, speaking to people etc. My mother seems to properly dread when she has to organise something because her and my dad used to do it together and I suppose she doesn't have him to check in with or make decisions on things that involve her and my brother (who has as and lives at home). We have a woman come into our shop that reminds me of her and sometimes talks on about for example how long it takes for the optician to fix her glasses, or the bank to help her. Everybody is different