To think that having to have a DBS check to home educate is unfair.

[Grimed]

Baroness Garden is intending all homeschool parents to be DBS checked. I don't think this is fair. What makes Homeschool parents more likely to be abusive? Surely regular checks from the local LA should be enough? If the education system is failing so many children perhaps that is what's needs examining not parents. What's next? All pregnant women get DBS checked?

What a load of shite

Completely agree with this.

It’s pointless trying to break through to the none Home Educators here.

It's pointless trying to break through to the non-home educated here.

most of them can’t think outside of their ‘send kids to school obey conformity’ mindset.

Um, I literally used to work for an Home Education organisation and was in contact with Home Educators every single day. If I had a child (or hopefully when I have children) I would definitely either home educate or send them to a forest school. But sure knock yourself out about how super duper special and non-conformist you are and how everyone else is a dumb robot.

as long as THEIR civil liberties aren’t affected

I already have an enhanced DBS that is regularly updated. I'm not asking for anything that I don't already do personally.

would happily have us and our children all microchipped and our homes installed with live CCTV for ‘safeguarding’.

What do you hope to gain from making up this kind of hyperbole? Why are you trying to undermine the concept of safeguarding by conflating it with what sounds worryingly similar to Q-Anon style conspiracy theories about government monitoring?

They have no interest in our lived experiences

You clearly have no interest in my "lived experience" as the only person (or at least the only one who's mentioned it) on this thread who actually was deregistered from school as a child.

I kind of think spite comes into it a bit also.

Accusing child abuse survivors of being "spiteful" for wanting to prevent other kids from being abused is probably the most spiteful thing I've ever read here.

I don't even have children. My ONLY concern is protecting other abused home ed kids like me.

It’s pointless trying to break through to the none Home Educators here

And vice versa

Because its not saying that all home educators are abusers. Nothing remotely like that.

Its looking at the question of how to check on 'invisible' DC

And I am amazed at the number of posters who think that the sort of information that can be shown by DBS checks is already known to 'the authorities'. Is is not routinely shared, and requiring a check will mean that any information is indeed shared

@JemimaPuddlegoose i was home educated for a period of time, after I suffered abuse in school. It was a blissful experience and I had no issues whatsoever with it. It was such a positive, and school such a negative, that it’s one if the reasons I home educate mine. As I said, school is not a safe haven for many.

ForestFae I'm truly sorry that you suffered abuse at school. I'm very aware of how much abuse there is in the world, in all different arenas and situations.

Thank you @JemimaPuddlegoose Im sure we are all shaped by our experiences. Mine was positive of home but poor at school, yours was the opposite, which obviously gives us different perspectives on issues such as these

I agree with that, but I think ultimately we all want the same thing, which is for children to be safe and protected.

I certainly have no interest in forcing children into a school system that clearly fails many children and is utterly unfit for many types of SEN. Like I said, I have a lot of experience with the HE community and I'm sure your parents were like the HE parents I work with, who only want what's best for their children and would jump through any hoops to support their kids being able to access whatever education is right for them.

Most HEers on Mumsnet (this is probably true of most HEers overall) have kids who started out attending regular school, probably have siblings who attend school, and had to remove them either due to bullying or lack of SEN accommodation. They often stick at least somewhat to the National Curriculum, ensure their children at least take Maths and English GCSE, and tend to be involved in other organisations like sports groups or HE tutoring groups. The vast majority of parents just want what's best for their children and would have no problem with stuff like an annual check or other minimal safeguarding, but maybe feel burnt out or suspicious due to personal experience with LEAs who are hostile or overly demanding.

It's the tiny minority who HE because they're ideologically opposed to government/authorities, avoid any contact with authorities, don't register their children with doctors, never enrol their children in school or kindergarten, and have an unusually high level of concern over beliefs the government is monitoring them. There's often but not always a link between people who fall into the latter category and far right or religious groups, or to conspiracy theories.

I can and will happily talk to the former, but there's no talking to the latter.

Yes, I don’t think anyone here wants children to be abused. I do think there are valid reasons to be suspicious of authority and that those suspicions aren’t inherently bad or negative - regarding the LAs, many regularly overstep which is what’s made a lot of us wary of them.

“I think ultimately we all want the same thing, which is for children to be safe and protected.“

No I don’t think we do want the same thing. Home Educators want their children to be happy, educated, safe and protected.

Those who campaign against us couldn’t care less about ‘happy’, are willing to sacrifice ‘educated’ for ‘safe’ but consider children being in the care of a mix of strangers trying to supervise 30+ children at the same time whilst surrounded by abusive peers and a stressful target driven environment with no personal agency as ‘safe and protected’.

Frankly I don’t know why such people don’t just suggest sending all children to prison for their own protection at the earliest possible age. Then they will be even better ‘safeguarded’.

See? There's no talking to conspiracy theorists who believe that everyone's out to get their children.

Nobody is "campaigning against you".

I don’t think it’s true to say no one is campaigning against us. The home education “register” for example, every single child on that register will already be registered somewhere else. So why is it necessary? What will it actually add?

But why do you perceive wanting to protect children from abuse - when clearly HE is used as a cover for abuse, and a ton of abuse is only noticed due to being in school - as being against you personally?

Yes they are. Plenty of people think home education should be banned

Because people who carry out these “checks” - LA bods - often have no experience with HE, believe that school at home is the only type of valid HE, and have personal prejudices against people who live alternative lifestyles. Many are ex teachers. There’s not some sort of panel or anything, it’s just one EHE officer - they could be racist, sexist, dislike tattooed parents, dislike someone’s area or home - I’ve heard of a case where the EHE official referred a mother to social services because she breastfed her infant in front of her older child and the EHE person found it inappropriate. Basically, it’s one persons very subjective opinion that holds disproportionate power over us. The HE community is a very tiny one. We already take on the costs of home educating our children, happily and gladly, but the prejudices against us mean that these checks that are carried out are often biased against us from the get go.

I also ideologically really really dislike the stance that I have to prove myself capable, rather than we all be assumed capable until evidence shows we are not.

It’s ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense!

possibly triggering content below:

Also to add - my experience in school traumatised me. At one point, I attempted suicide because of it. The fact that an “official” who doesn’t know my children, me, or our lives could force me by law to send my children into what is a bear pit of underfunding, vicious bullies and abusive authoritarians leaves me cold. I would have no power to protect them from the horrors I was subject to. Someone can decide that, because they decide I don’t fit their box. They can, with an odd the cuff decision, radically alter the course of my children’s lives and ensure they’re subjected to endless trauma. Does that terrify me? Absolutely it does.

Yes they are. Plenty of people think home education should be banned
Do they? Weird that none of them ever post here.

Because people who carry out these “checks” - LA bods - often have no experience with HE
I've mentioned this several times, as a reason why many HEers have valid concerns over LEAs, and have several times noted how problematic it is that different LEAs vary so much.

That's an issue that needs to be changed. That's what people need to fight for, and come up with alternatives too. Yet whenever I raised the question "how to change the system to better support HEers" the only response from the HE posters is "well my kids are fine so that's not my problem."

@JemimaPuddlegoose for a start, I’d like to see Home Educators, or ex Home Ecucators, in positions as EHE LA bods rather than ex teachers. If the LAs genuinely want to work with our community and build bridges, that’s how it needs to start. There’s no hope of understanding us if they only employ people who have experienced one narrow part of the educational spectrum.

Does that terrify me? Absolutely it does.

Literally every single thing you've said, equally applies to my own situation of being abused due to HE.

The fact that children can simply be de-registered from school and vanish entirely, the knowledge that children experience any amount of abuse without anyone seeming to give a shit (because they're alright Jack) absolutely terrifies me. It should absolutely terrifying anyone who gives a shit about the well-being of children not their own.

Ah so it seems that you do think going to school keeps children safer than being home educated.

What exactly is it that you want? I asked you earlier and you only repeated the question back to me and said "you're the expert".

I want people to stop getting safeguarding and education mixed up. I want them to stop saying that lots of people take their children out of school to abuse them. I want people to stop making assumptions about me based on the fact that I home educate. I also don't want to be accused of not having empathy. But I personally don't have the perfect answer to the question "how do we make sure no child is ever abused?". Do you?

for a start, I’d like to see Home Educators, or ex Home Ecucators, in positions as EHE LA bods rather than ex teachers.

Cool, I'd be happy to support such a campaign. Why not start one?

Hell, I'd be first in line to volunteer, as someone who both supports home education and has worked as an HE tutor, and has a background in safeguarding.

Where’s the smoking gun of this happening en masse to home educated children? Because I can find an article every week about a child who’s committed suicide due to bullying or school related abuse.

I’m not saying it never happens but statistically there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that this is a huge, hidden problem within the HE community. There is however, absolutely masses of evidence that schools are destroying the mental health of young people

I’ve seen it discussed on home ed boards a few times, and it’s something I may discuss with other HEers myself.

Both myself and my DH are DBS checked (well mines probably expired, as I haven’t worked since my 2nd child was born) by the way, so it’s not the check specifically I have an issue with, more the assertion that I am somehow a threat to my own children - but only specifically during school hours, Monday to Friday.

JemimaPuddlegoose · Today 23:13

Yes they are. Plenty of people think home education should be banned
Do they? Weird that none of them ever post here
Why is that weird Jemima? There have been posts on Mumsnet from people wanting to make home education illegal But regardless, not everyone is on Mumsnet.