To think that having to have a DBS check to home educate is unfair.

[Grimed]

Baroness Garden is intending all homeschool parents to be DBS checked. I don't think this is fair. What makes Homeschool parents more likely to be abusive? Surely regular checks from the local LA should be enough? If the education system is failing so many children perhaps that is what's needs examining not parents. What's next? All pregnant women get DBS checked?

Exactly, no logic there at all

Home educated children are seen by health visitors, Dr's, dentists and have access to see the school nurse if need be.

Except for the ones who aren't, of course. The ones who are, are not the ones who need to be protected.

Most home educated children also go to things such as scouts, brownies, guides, Gymnastics, St John's Ambulance, Air Cadets, etc etc. Lots also pay for private tutors, for different subjects such as music, foreign languages etc. All of these are with leaders/tutors who have been DBS checked.

It's impossible to say "most" because there's no statistics and no data.

I'm sure the HE parents you know do those things, but that's classic confirmation bias. Those are the only HE parents you come into contact with are those actively involved in the HE community.

Having tutored HE children I know that there's a very tight HE community of parents who are incredibly dedicated to supporting their children's education and well-being, who have been badly failed by schools and LEAs. I completely support those parents and think they should have much better support and less judgement from authorities. It's terrible how badly HE parents are treated by the authorities.

But parents or guardians who deregister their children as a front for abuse, or because they simply can't be bothered sending their children to school, obviously they aren't going to be part of any wider HE community or in contact with other HE parents. They're not going to be sending their children to Brownies or tutors. They and their children are invisible.

I don't know how to reconcile better supporting HE parents who have been failed by schools and only want what's best for their children, with ensuring that abusive or neglectful parents can't simply deregister their children and vanish from sight. Personally I don't think DBS is the way forward, but there has to be something.

Are you honestly that naive to think that had you, or the other 'survivors' would have not been abused had you not been home educated. Do you honestly believe being in school would have stopped it, or someone would have instantly noticed?
Many children sadly get abused, and many, hundreds probably thousands, go to school every day, with a fake smile on their face to hide what happens at home.
You could have spoken to neighbours, family, friends, anyone, you chose not to (For reasons I personally fully understand) But none of them picked up on your abuse, nor made any calls of concern. So don't aim your anger at the home ed community who, all but possibly a few, have their child's best interests at heart, aim it at those who did not see the changes in you, did not bother to ask if you were okay. All the people that saw you on a regular basis. because they should have spotted something. That one guy coming to check on your education once a year, he surely wouldn't have done.

Not really. School is a common place safeguarding concerns/ a child's welfare is flagged. If they are not in school, they can easily go under the radar. Very different from a parent with a child in school.

Again, this isn't aimed at the home ed community; but at another, less savoury community that hides behind them.

Exactly!! What about the thousands and thousands of kids who have been assaulted in schools...some by teachers who have had DBS checks. They count for nothing! The gov need to get the schools sorted and help with their funding etc before trying to push Home Ed kids into a system that cannot cope already. Makes no sense at all. Just another way of making tge public think home educators must be upto something and make us seem like weirdos. I mean can completely trust schools. That's why mine suffered with anxiety and were bullied etc. The ignorance of some people is amazing

Home educated kids do have access to home visitors, doctors, opticians and people who safeguard like any other child would. I feel like some of the people commenting on here really have no idea what's involved. We submit yearly reports for our children's learning and achievements too which the LA (local authority) read and check. They aren't locked in a cupboard, dirty and left to fend for themselves!!! Wow!! They do see people and have friends!!! Also it's home educated not home schooled ( home schooled is an American term, in this coountry home schooled kids are still on a school roll and the school supplies work.

I know of home ed kids who don't go to the docs since they have a homeopathic lifestyle. They are NOT abused. So no, the assumption that if they don't follow the social norm then there is abuse involved is not true.
I know you had a bad experience, but not everyone is unfortunate like you. Most people love their kids.

I meant health visitors

I think there should be basic checks on home schooling to make sure children are actually receiving an education. However I think this can only come alongside improving schooling options for children with SEN, providing home schooling parents funding for educational resources etc.

I don’t see that a DBS would be helpful in any way. Many parents that are abusive to their children wouldn’t have anything that would show up on a DBS. If a parent did have something on a DBS that indicated a possible risk to children that should need to be investigated for children wherever they are education (home or school)

Are you honestly that naïve to think that had you, or the other 'survivors' would have not been abused had you not been home educated.

I can tell you absolutely 100% FOR A FACT that if I'd had the opportunity to speak to an adult outside of my household to be able to ask for help (ask them to ring the police for me) that I would have been rescued. Absolutely 100% no question whatsoever.

Please do not call abuse survivors "naïve" for commenting on their own personal situation. I know my personal situation, and you do not.

You could have spoken to neighbours, family, friends, anyone, you chose not to

No I absolutely could not. There is no "chose not to" about it.

I wasn't allowed access to a telephone.

I didn't have any family except my mum (who was being controlled by her boyfriend) and one grandparent who lived in warden flats hundreds of miles away and who I never saw.

Neighbours ignored it.

I didn't have contact with friends since I was no longer in school. Besides I was a child, meaning all my friends were children too (or do you expect children to have adult friends?). Even if I did have some way to contact my friends from before I left school, what do you expect children to do?

If I'd been able to speak to a teacher then I could have made them listen, I could have told them enough detail to make them understand how serious it was, and then they could have advocated for me. Police and social services would have listened to them.

All the people that saw you on a regular basis.

Literally not ONE person laid eyes on me for two years, except my mum and her boyfriend. That is literally the entire point: that there are kids who no one ever lays eyes on. Who are these people you think were seeing me on a regular basis???!

That's not what she's saying at all. We do have checks by LAs, we don't need a DBS check. As far as I can see this statement was just another ploy to make Home Ed parents seem alien. Our kids visit groups, see doctors, opticians etc. What difference would it make if they attended a school or not? Why should a parent only be made to have a DBS check if they "choose" (which is a legal right) to educate their child at home. Does abuse only take place in school hours? Are kids attending school safe even if their parents abuse them? No logic to this what so ever🤯

@user1493039869 ”most people love their kids” may be true but you are very naïve if you think that means that abuse is rare.
I’m a safeguarding lead in a school and the number of children dealing with abuse at home is staggering. In the last month I’ve dealt with so many cases of abuse and neglect that I’ve lost count. In this academic year a quarter of our students have had some form of safeguarding concern raised about them. They may be a minority, but they are not a small minority.
I’m not sure that DBS is the way to go, but there is good reason to make sure that HE children are monitored and that they have contact with professionals who can raise the alarm if there are issues.

A completely homeopathic lifestyle would be inherently neglectful anyway. Trying to avoid unnecessary medication is one thing, but leaving a child without proper medication and only using placebos could be dangerous or leave a child in unnecessary pain if they have a significant illness or injury.

Yup. 100% agree

How do you think it would work?

What crime on a DBS would not have already prevented the parent from being in close contact with the child?

Home educated kids do have access to home visitors, doctors, opticians and people who safeguard like any other child would.

Except for the ones who don't.

We submit yearly reports for our children's learning and achievements

Except for the ones who don't.

They aren't locked in a cupboard, dirty and left to fend for themselves!!!

So fuck the ones who are, because my kids are alright Jack.

Most people love their kids.

Most people love their kids so let's not bother having any safeguarding?

If most people love their kids then how come child abuse and child exploitation is so common?

We do have checks by LAs. Our kids visit groups, see doctors, opticians etc. What difference would it make if they attended a school or not?

Because the checks aren't designed to protect kids like yours, but to protect the kids who never see a doctor, never visit groups, and aren't checked by LEA.

As a child who was beaten at home and at school for the entirety of my childhood I would never trust a school or authority again. A DBS check wouldn’t have flagged anything up at all either. Schools routinely fail children day in and out, I now suffer with childhood trauma/PTSD. This affected me so deeply that I have only just had my first and only child at the age of 36 as I was so convinced that I would do the same to my own child and have lived in constant fear my whole life. I am now at a stage in which I’m truly happy but it took a long time to get here.

I don’t know what the answer is to safeguard all children but I do know that a DBS in majority cases won’t help. However I do agree that something needs to be in place to ensure all children whether at school or not are heard.

What I don’t agree with is penalising and stigmatising all home educators which is exactly what this is doing, more support and funding would be a better starting point to me.

👌👋 yes. Lots of ex teachers in the home ed groups we are in. That to me speaks volumes

Who are all these HCPs who regularly see HE children?! I have a kid who is in school. We saw the health visitor once at 3 weeks and once at 6 weeks, when she refused to offer any support for my PND. We then never set eyes on her again. To get a developmental check for my child I ended up complaining to my MP because my area wasn't even offering basic checks. If I hadn't done that, no HV would have seen my daughter after the age of 6 weeks.

She's seen the GP once in six years for a rash. She's seen the optician once after several years of trying to get an appt and getting fobbed off. Our area doesn't have any NHS dentists so she has only seen a private one - a high percentage of children don't go to the dentist at all because of the NHS dentist shortage. What is the school nurse service?! She's been seen once briefly by someone administering the flu spray in school, no other access to a nurse?!

It would be really easy for abusive parents to avoid all these interactions with HCPs. Most of them I only got after a lot of persistence!

And many areas don't seem to check up on HE children - the family I have concerns about the council doesn't follow up, doesn't ask to see work or what they've been doing etc.

Yes I know plenty of people who are dealing with social services due to this and their kids go to school. I also know some who convinced social services there was nothing going on and I have seen myself there is..... As for LAs overstepping, there are many who make demands which aren't within the law (demanding copies of work etc) and then threaten SAOs if you don't comply. There were issues with the home education officer at our LA for quite a while, she was overstepping the mark, she has now been replaced and so far so good with the new home ed officer from mine and many other families opinions..... I'm not concerned about my family as we have nothing to hide, but I am concerned for families where the parents may have a criminal record from when they were young and stupid and have completely turned their lives around who home educate..... Who is going to decide what crimes are deemed unsuitable and how long ago offences matter for? I get that violent and sexual offences will definitely be on the list but what else will be?
And I think many people are of the same thinking as me that this is a completely pointless and ridiculous idea. As I said if we as home ed parents should be DBS checked so should all parents as they're left to look after their kids outside school hours and in school holidays.

Sorry you feel the need to troll-hunt Minky3. I assure you there is nothing extraordinary about having been abused as a child.

Happy to DM you a link to a major media article about my personal case published in 2009 (which only happened because I advocate and write about child abuse; the media generally ignore child abuse and have no interest in covering it).

Any child who is deregistered from school to be home ed is known to the LA. These parents have to write reports. So the children ARE NOT HIDDEN. The LA know of these children, and know what their education is like. So you were known to the local authority, they just let you down, like most government organisations.

going through serious case reviews recently and noticed several with home educational as a complicating factor.

Any child who is deregistered from school to be home ed is known to the LA. These parents have to write reports. So the children ARE NOT HIDDEN.

After 16 pages of numerous posters sharing their personal experience it's really abundantly clear that situations vary hugely from district to district.

Some LEAs are overly oppressive and make inappropriately strict demands on parents.

Some LEAs do nothing at all and don't request any reports or conduct any visits or checks.

It is clearly not factually correct to say ALL HE parents have to write reports. Some do. Not all.