To think that having to have a DBS check to home educate is unfair.

[Grimed]

Baroness Garden is intending all homeschool parents to be DBS checked. I don't think this is fair. What makes Homeschool parents more likely to be abusive? Surely regular checks from the local LA should be enough? If the education system is failing so many children perhaps that is what's needs examining not parents. What's next? All pregnant women get DBS checked?

All teachers, other school staff, even regular visitors to schools, have to have DBS checks. Homeschooling parents are just being treated the same as others involved in children's education.

I didn't say that DBS was a good idea, I said there should be more checks on Home Ed children.
If anyone apart from his parents had seen Dylan in the year before he died, he would probably be alive now.
He was described as invisible by many.
A child practice review published in 2016 said it was "tragic that there are many references that the child was 'invisible'."
It's telling that there are no available photos of Dylan because so few people saw him.

I'm glad you shared this. This sort thing does happen despite what some people think.

Bit Jemima the "whataboutery" is very relevant here because where would they send a child if the LA decided that their parents aren't complying with the Education Act? They'd issue a school attendance order and make the child go to school. Many children are abused and bullied at school. Many don't learn what they are meant to learn (according to the NC) and schools that Ofsted deem are Inadequate are still allowed to stay open. So it's relevant to this discussion.

In 2020/21 about 70% of pupils in state funded mainstream English schools got at least a grade 5 in Maths and English. That means that 30% didn't get the grade (5) the government says children ought to get. I don't know what the statistics are for home educated children.

I don't know what the statistics are for home educated children.

Do the statistics exist? If not, what does that tell you?

It tells me that nobody has compiled them. What does it tell you?

Bit Jemima the "whataboutery" is very relevant here because where would they send a child if the LA decided that their parents aren't complying with the Education Act?

It's not relevant to the context it was raised in, which was, "But what about sexually abused children who do attend school and the school doesn't notice signs of abuse."

The point you raise is a very important one, it's just nothing to do with child abuse and how to monitor for it. School safeguarding systems might not be perfect but a huge amount of abuse and neglect is only spotted because the child is in school.

It's a bit like someone leaving their front door wide open then turning round and saying "but what about all those people whose homes were broken into despite locking their door!"

If you lock your door, you dramatically reduce the risk of being burgled. The fact some people get burgled despite locks doesn't mean you should just leave your door wide open.

If children are being seen by teachers every day, it dramatically reduces the risk of abuse going unnoticed. The fact some abuse gets overlooked despite being seen by teachers every day doesn't mean you should just have zero monitoring.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

This is dangerous on so many levels.

A DBS check of your past, becoming the sole arbiter of your current suitability to care for your own children.....

What about mental health? What about physical health? Should medical records be examined to assess your ability to care?

It's also a very short trip down the slippery slope to DBS for pregnant women. Would your husband or partner be forced to move out of they failed a DBS check? If you failed should you have to move out and leave your child behind?

Which offences are "unacceptable"? Where exactly is the line that if you've crossed it in the past the state confiscates your children? Remember this is for past, and not current behaviour.

I really wouldn't be putting my faith in state services that thinks girls should shut up for their own good when abuse is involved.

You can opt out of having a HV though and obviously it is your choice whether or not you attend your GP. The only family I know who home school opted out of maternity care, free birthed, opted out of health visiting services etc. So who is safeguarding those children?

As it happens, this is a lovely family and I highly doubt anything sinister is going on, but its easy to see how families can go off grid. Maternity care offers an opportunity to observe for signs of DV at a time when it is most prevalent so opting right out of it is always a worry. But it is not statutory in the UK, people can opt out.

That being said, a DBS will do nothing to safeguard children.

Where is this idea coming from that abusers are more likely to home school? I am sure some do, but surely most send their DC to school but with very poor attendance? That is certainly what I have always read/ heard.

I’ve always thought ineffective monitoring just creates more risk, through complacency.

For example I go to the GP and they have a gut feeling, but not quite evidence, that something isn’t right. They realise the child is unseen, they do a MASH report.
Alternatively they are told by mum ‘oh he’s on the home Ed register! We have checks and I have a DBS.’. The GP feel reassured someone has an eye on things and doesn’t make a report.

In reality neither the register or DBS check mean the child has even been seen. It means mum writes a report, and has no convictions.

Another scenario, a neighbour notices a home educated child never goes out and there is constant shouting. Mum reassured them they have a register and checks, neighbour backs off with their. Concerns.

People who are unsure are far far less likely to report a concern if they believe a child is already monitored and seen, this thread demonstrates that.

The overwhelming abuse cases already slip through because people are convinces that some other service is dealing with the case properly. Schools rely on SS visits and feel reassured there are visits. SS rely on schools not flagging the smaller pieces of the puzzle. That’s how kids are missed, everyone being a bit concerned but no one acting. Introducing complacency through inadequate checks is about the worst thing we can do.

Either a quality funded system of support that functions, or as it is. Don’t offer out badges of assurance for no reason! A DBS and a report isn’t realistically going to save a single child, but it might shield one.

YANBU because it is almost certainly pointless. Some posters are saying that all children deserve safeguarding,but the best way to achieve thst would be through external visits from Ofsted (or a HE equivalent). DBS checks are very unlikely to make a difference. It's not like they give you truth serum and a lie detector test and then ask if you're a child abuser: DBS is just a background criminal record check, a very blunt instrument really. I imagine that most people who commit abuse in a family setting are unlikely to have any convictions on file that would show up in a DBS, so its just s waste of parents money

If DBS checking all homeschoolers saves a handful of children from abuse it’s worth it in my opinion.

Genuine homeschoolers with no criminal record (posing a threat to children) will have nothing to worry about. It’s a bit of paperwork. Bigger picture here.

From people I know in childrens services “homeschooling” is often used to cover up abuse, though obviously there are many genuine homeschoolers.

A DBS would potentially pick out a few cases for extra monitoring etc. same as some DV will be picked up by midwife screening, but not all.

I’m so very sorry this happened to you. I lost my ddad at a similar age and it’s heartbreaking that no one was there to protect you.

As a bare minimum checks and visits should be carried out to ensure that the children are safe. It’s a disgrace that nothing has changed since you were a child. While there may be some good parents who choose to homeschool, there are bound to be others with nefarious intentions and it’s far too easy for abusers to isolate their children. I also think there should be regular assessments to ensure that children are actually being taught the relevant information to sit and pass exams. If they aren’t then they should be sent back to mainstream school. The parents may not approve of traditional learning but the kids will need to find employment and function in the real world and they have a duty to ensure they are prepared for that.

Another forgotten child here: www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/jordan-burling-report-into-death-of-18-year-old-leeds-boy-from-neglect-recommends-more-scrutiny-of-home-schooled-children-3701360

Thank you for sharing your experience op. It can’t have been easy.

Home Education should be seen more as individualised private education, perfectly legal and is actually the default. Parents who send their children to school have taken the decision to let the state provide education to their children via the school system.

One of the reasons that OFSTED exists is to check the state school is meeting agreed standards and report back to the parents if the school is achieving this, and if not, the measures being put in place to correct this.

If you have been educated successfully through the school state system then surely your education is at a high standard and you should be more than capable of educating your child to at least that standard? If not, then could you argue that a state school education is a poor standard of education and it is understandable that parents are looking for better alternatives their children.

It would probably surprise people just how many ex teachers home educate because they have lost faith in a school system that is not fit for purpose, failing both school teachers and schooled children.

What a strange perspective. Even a qualified teacher will not have specialist knowledge of each and every subject. This is why children are not taught by one teacher at senior school level but a number of teachers who have trained in the specifics of their field. I looked for alternatives for my dc but in the private sector rather than assuming that my own skills were sufficient. I’m educated to degree level with a higher attainment in English and History than most but I wouldn’t assume for a second that I could teach my child to even an equivalent standard than an actual teacher with specialist training in their field.

Even if a parent was capable of teaching their children to the required standards - and for the sake of those children, I sincerely hope that is the case - they should of course be subject to the same checks that other teachers are. If they are as capable as you seem to think there should be no issue with that. There should also be league tables, minimum standards and consequences for those not performing to the required level in the same way as schools.

The system we have is letting children down and a full overhaul is required. And that’s without even taking into account the parents who use the complete lack of supervision to isolate and abuse their poor children which is the biggest issue in this whole debate.

I think this idea of ‘specialist in their own field’ is odd, many teachers are actually teaching outside their subject specialism.

Many home educators facilitate their children’s education, and are aware of activities/tutors/resources to supplement what their child is doing if they feel their subject knowledge is not matching what their child needs. Their educational philosophy usually adapts to the needs of the child, and often will try a few different pedagogical approaches as well. The home educational community, on a whole, is supportive and you can find a wide range of families who are home educating for different reasons.

Most home educated children do take GCSEs or equivalent, with many going on to college or university. The beauty of home education is that you can help them develop in the areas that they are interested in and support in areas that they need as well. Home educators do this with no financial support from the government or LA, organising and funding GCSEs etc themselves.

The problem is that home education is perceived to be a safeguarding problem, when home education in itself is not. Your tax money would be better spent in recruiting social workers, mental health teams etc who are well educated and supported in their roles, so that they can identify children and young people who need the support across society, regardless of where or how they are educated.

Rather than plowing ££ into a DBS check for home educating parents, which would not identify cases of neglect or abuse, why not create something more positive that would benefit all families? This money should be spent on establishing a good relationship between the LAs and the home education community, so both have mutual respect, support and build trust that both will uphold their duties and responsibilities with regards to the education of home educated children.

AppleWax Thank you 😁

So does that mean ALL parents should have a DBS check?
Many children don't go to nursery or preschool before starting school. That means for 4 years it's possible for them to be invisible. Then there's the holidays, should all parents have a check just before the 6 weeks holiday as, let's face it, anything could happen in those 6 weeks!

Should all parents have a DBS at the start of pregnancy. What happens if they have had a conviction, 'oh sorry, you need to terminate as you stole something 5 years ago'.

Seriously, the cases of abuse amongst home education is children who WERE in school, WERE known to agencies including social services and WERE failed by these agencies.

Some of the most serious cases are children who were at school each and every day.

What about children who face serious emotional and physical abuse at school?
Oh, that's right they're at school and it's the best place for them away from the evil clutches of their loving families

Seriously, the cases of abuse amongst home education is children who WERE in school, WERE known to agencies including social services and WERE failed by these agencies.

This is flat out untrue.

Plenty of HE kids who were abused had NO prior contact with social services and social services were not aware of their existence and had no reason to conduct any checks, as they were not on SS radar at all.

Remember the only cases you hear about are the .1% of cases involving murder or very very severe abuse. Most abuse is secret. Most abuse never comes to the attention of police or SS. Most abuse never gets in the news.

If someone wants to abuse their kids and they deregister them in order to do so, and the abuse isn't of a level where the child is being hospitalised, often the abuse lasts until the child is a teenager and old enough to either run away or move away, or until the parent loses interest. The child grows up and leaves home, all without the police or SS or the media ever knowing about it.

Not to mention it's not always active abuse but often neglect, where parents deregister their children and claim they're going to HE because they just can't be bothered, and the children aren't physically or sexually abused but neglected in terms of being denied any education, and sometimes neglected in other ways. These cases very rarely come to the attention of the police or SS. Many survivors don't even realise until they are much older than what happened to them is a crime.

What about children who face serious emotional and physical abuse at school?

And now we're back to whatabouttery and "but some people lock their doors and still get robbed, so what's the point of not leaving your door wide open."

Totally agree...next step - adding all parents to a 'register', when the only register that exists in the UK is a 'sex offenders register'. How would 'school parents' feel about the government intervening in their weekends with their children 'just to check on their wellbeing'? There has only ever been a couple of case of 'high profile' home educated children being shown to be at risk - one poor child died, yet schools and parents fail their children in huge numbers yearly! It may seem I proportioning blame, im not, but where do we draw the line...why has the government decided that Home Education is a safeguarding issue...why have they decided that home ed children need to be monitored....oh yes...COVID hit and so many parents realised the failure of the education system and saw that, with LOVE 9the central word that should be the forefront of all parenting), patience and hard work, parents can educate their children better than any school teacher who is teaching 3o children at one time - and yes, I used to be a school teacher who's students achieved extremely high grades constantly at GCSE and Level, yet, my child at 5 is probably on par with schooled children aged 7-8 in some subjects, (not my trained subjects) and on course with his school counterparts in others...why? Because I work one to one and through support and engaging him, he adores learning...something that 99% of home educating parents do too!

Next step - adding all parents to a 'register', when the only register that exists in the UK is a 'sex offenders register'. How would 'school parents' feel about the government intervening in their weekends with their children 'just to check on their wellbeing'? There has only ever been a couple of case of 'high profile' home educated children being shown to be at risk - one poor child died, yet schools and parents fail their children in huge numbers yearly! It may seem I proportioning blame, im not, but where do we draw the line...why has the government decided that Home Education is a safeguarding issue...why have they decided that home ed children need to be monitored....oh yes...COVID hit and so many parents realised the failure of the education system and saw that, with LOVE 9the central word that should be the forefront of all parenting), patience and hard work, parents can educate their children better than any school teacher who is teaching 3o children at one time - and yes, I used to be a school teacher who's students achieved extremely high grades constantly at GCSE and Level, yet, my child at 5 is probably on par with schooled children aged 7-8 in some subjects, (not my trained subjects) and on course with his school counterparts in others...why? Because I work one to one and through support and engaging him, he adores learning...something that 99% of home educating parents do too!

Seems fair enough.