AIBU to think that family courts always favour social services?

[user0512]

AIBU to think that family courts often favour social services? Just watched the documentary on BBC about SS and it got me thinking ...

I’m a social worker and most of the time they are highly critical of us
the judges do however tend to value the guardians view (though not always )
I saw that programme and felt it was really wrong to seperate those twins

I've only got the experience of what one of my friends went through. And what you have stated is absolutely true. My friend won against them in the end as she was extremely well educated, articulate, organised, well represented and above all not to blame. She blew SS out of the water. It still took two and a half years of numerous court appearances though and a very damaged child at the end of it all.

They definitely rely too heavily on section 7 reports. I had an obese SW involved in my divorce proceedings who actually made notes that i was dressed in gym clothes - having come from the gym - and was carrying a smoothie - the horror. I dont know how a straight face was kept by all in the court room. I thought it was a wind up. The judge, pondered it very seriously 🙄

The legal guardian my dc had admitted our entire 4 year case report was based on 'facts' he got from my exh... Not the impartial dc focused appointed person he was supposed to be...

My experience is certainly one of a lot of bias from SS.

They were involved in my divorce and I very nearly lost my DC to an extremely abusive and controlling man who'd said in front of said SW that "I'd lose my DC for good as he'd poison them against me" I was still accused of parent alienation.

I fought against it but it was a horrific 2 and a half years and I don't think I'll ever recover fully from it.

What documentary is this?

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0017g7d/panorama-protecting-our-children-a-balancing-act

It must be difficult being a SW and having so much responsibility placed upon you. However, I feel like a lot of SW is based upon the SW'a own feelings towards the case.

I know someone who has had three different social workers involved with her DC and all three have had such different views.

Are SS all the courts rely on?

Definitely. My heart broke for all the children in that documentary and especially the twins 😢

The family courts are a horrific mess full stop. Putting women and children at risk of abuse and murder. Awful. We will look back on this time in disgust

Watched the programme and agree the decision to separate the twins was wrong.

As for the other families, frankly it was light on content and we only got one side of the story.

I'm pretty sure there was a hell of a lot more going on than was reported. The threshold to remove a child from parents is higher than I think many people understand. The definition of "good enough" parenting would have most MN's clutching their pearls.

The biggest takeaway for me was how many social workers are leaving the profession.

How can you provide effective continuity of care with agency staff? How do services learn from lessons of the past if the staff turnover results in the a collective memory less than that of a goldfish?

I didn't get at all the impression courts side with SS - quite the reverse if you look at the dispensation to report (on normally closed/secret) family court information re: Hereford.

The fact is SS have been massively underfunded and the services hit worst are early intervention. As a result more families end up in crisis where the stakes are very high for all involved.

@BreadInCaptivity completely agree with your statement about “good enough” parenting. Experience (20-odd years in teaching) tells me it rarely is. Primary age children discovered alone in houses at 7am, not sure if parent came home? Good enough. Children who have missed medical appointments, smell for days on end and sleep wherever they fall? Good enough, stop holding everyone to your own standards.

Hi, thanks for sharing link.

I watched it and I think the whole system is fucking mortifying.
If ever a system needed billions pumped into it....

One of my closest friends was a family and children's social worker for many years and now assesses cases where reviews are needed. I know that she's had some very difficult experiences in family court, when her professional judgement / decisions have been called into question. She's very careful what she discloses and would never talk about individual incidents / cases, but she paints a picture of SWs being under enormous pressure with unmanageable caseloads.

This is just anecdotal of course but I know that SS don't always get the outcome they want at court. I'm also aware (having volunteered with 'looked after' children) that there are many instances where the courts also get it wrong. As PPs have said, the whole system is just broken and needs a massive overhaul, both in terms of funding and acceptable practices.

@FloweryBodySpray can I ask how you fought this? In a similar position myself and it's truly horrific

My advice that I didn’t take it but I truly wish I had when I was told to do this on Mumsnet is Lawyer up do not let the children meet with social services on attended have your lawyer there, you will be critised for this but it is your legal right. I also talked too much I don’t know if you’re having a section 7 report but I gave them a guided tour around the house with commentary I wish I just opened the door sat down and let them walk round said nothing.

@Nothappyatwork why would it have been better not to show then round?

Because everything you say is taken down and used against you.
one example SW says bathroom is a bit small, i say well its a rented house, not much k can change. Report, mother not open to feedback.
its a bit like no comment, for the best in most scenarios.

I'm a social work manager and I can confirm that the quality of social workers, assessments and reports for court is highly variable.
we have a workforce that is decimated by government cuts making it a frankly impossible job to do properly without burning out, as well as the genius idea to remove the automatic training bursary 10 years ago so far fewer people train to be social workers with full degrees, in favour of the 'step up' work based 1 year program favoured by the government which churns out unprepared graduates.
we rely on locum staff because they can travel from a long way away because they get paid travel whereas if we tried to stick to permanent staff there just aren't enough living in the area!
some locums are amazing - I have two in my team who have been with me over a year each and are no different to permanent staff but some are local authority hoppers who move on once their poor practice is exposed and somehow keep getting employed...

to answer your qu yes they do listen to SWs but they are also very critical and listen to court guardians far more readily even though CGs can often do just one visit to a child whereas the SW sees them dozens of times 🤷🏼‍♀️

I have not watched this yet but will do. My experience is that the court take a lot of notice of the guardian. In our situation it was a court battle around adoption and splitting siblings. The SW refused to listen to the children - when you have one saying "I don't want my sibling to live with me because they hurt me" and other professionals expressing concern about the effects on both children staying together, the SW refused to consider any other view. The court listened to the guardian and both children are now happy and settled.

I'm a guardian, I don't just side with SS to be honest more often than not the court is highly critical of SW to the extent that it's often uncomfortable and the amount of work expected by the SW in comparison to us is crazy. The FC really does need some overhaul in my view the closed adoption system in the UK particularly but also the issues around sibling separation, victims of domestic abuse, those with mental health issues etc. Additionally, I do feel there needs a better standardisation of the work produced by SWs and better training for those in more senior positions- by this I mean better managerial training as there does seem to be a huge lack of accountability from management and often SWs are sent like a lamb to the slaughter when there's weak decision making. There's so many pilot ideas and so many new pieces of paperwork but a limited amount of actual positive meaningful change in worker approaches to situations and analytical thinking.

It's unfortunate but the quality of outcome you get really does depend upon who the SW/ SW manager/ Guardian is and the quality of their assessment which as you can imagine with most professions can vary considerably.

@Biggreencactus that's a good response.

I'd like to be a guardian one day, hope I manage to get there!

I have never been to family court but from my experience of social workers, it would terrify me to have to, as the ones I’ve come across are completely inept, make utterly bizarre claims about what is a ‘concern’ and very much go off “Well loads of people tell us X and they’re lying” as a reason to think you’re not being truthful. Even if you can objectively prove your truth. Which is fucking ridiculous. A doctor doesn’t refuse to prescribe a required medication just because some people get addicted to it, but that’s how SW think and there is NO reasoning with them.

Long story short - my DD made a disclosure about a non-family member, and whilst the police in the end did fuck all, I honestly thought we’d be treated like she’s a victim and supported to get through it. whereas all they did was scrutinise and criticise us As parents poke into our past and tried to make irrelevant things, relevant. Reporting that disclosure is my biggest regret, if I knew nothing would happen but some jumped up woman with a very low comprehension on anything would tell me that I’m a ‘dishonest woman’ because I didn’t tell her I was sexually assault 3 years before I even had kids, I would never have bothered. And I won’t ever report a disclosure again from my kids should they make one due to this experience.

I really dread to think what it’s like by the time it gets to court.

That sounds horrendous and some of what you say is mirrored in my own experience too. The 'system' that I always thought was there to protect me has actually failed me in a big way and like you, I feel that my fingers are burned enough to never dare to disclose again. I had heard of victim blaming but had no idea how far and wide it goes.

YY @ImJustACuriousBird it really doesn’t pay to be a victim in this country. I went through six social workers in 8 months. Countless errors, so many twisted words and EVERYTHING you say to them will get twisted.

I was smart and kept notes after each meeting, and I also got a subject access request at the end. I was absolutely perplexed about the bullshit they put in their meeting notes. Right down to “Lydia says she is off to visit her sister at the weekend”. I don’t have a sister. It may not be a huge problem but what happens is they will then round and say you’re lying because “You told us you had a sister. Why did you say that”?

I complained in the end and some twat of a human being visited us to discuss the complaint and I had to ask her to leave because never have I ever been spoken to in such a disgusting manner in my own home. She said “So everybody else in the whooooole world is lying and YOU’RE truthful, right? Yeah right!” In a sarcastic tone. The local authority don’t care - they close ranks and cover for one another.

Very, very little of my experience was actually about my DD and what she went through and what she disclosed. There was huge amounts of scrutiny because she claimed the incident happened on X date - however that’s not possible as the person was away on holiday. I put it down to an e memory, with being 5. So they looked to us, to my DH, to her older brother, for ‘alternatives’.

Honestly when people say things like “There MUST be a bigger reason social services are involved. They don’t get involved for no reason”, I laugh and feel sorry for their naivety. People have no idea how little it takes for their involvement and just how much they will over reach to make you look bad as the parent. I also think the system is designed to break people. I’ve been sneered at when asking for help for me with my MH over the disclosure - and then it was put in a report that they were concerned I’d expressed that I could no longer cope caring for my children.

As parents, we should all be angry and completely terrified.