Should I intervene to protect DS?

[clangerdang]

Sorry this is long....

My ex (DS's dad) and his partner are splitting up. It's been going on since well before Christmas and they are currently still living together albeit now leading separate lives. DS is 7 and has understandably been quite emotional about this and really quite confused. School are aware of what is going on as he got upset in class - I asked for some help for DS & his dad (and me on how to handle the situation) from the school counsellor but when DS saw her and she asked if he wanted to talk he said no, she then asked if he had someone to talk to and he told her he had me. His dad never made contact. We have noticed a change in his behaviour when he comes home from his dad's - getting upset over the smallest of things, being mean to his sister and shouting/crying/angry - saying I am mean if I ask him to do the smallest of things.

I get on quite well with the (soon to be ex) partner and ended up chatting with her earlier this week. She mentioned some things that made me feel quite concerned. For example she got home to her belongings on the driveway on one of the days DS was there. She said DS's dad has sent her death threats, faked a suicide (but wouldn't go into detail), locked her in the bathroom and videoed her saying she was erratic and unstable. She said he gets DS upset and sends him to her crying asking her why she is leaving him. DS has told me that him and his dad have bought her gifts "but daddy said she can only have them if she stays".

My relationship with him when we were together was toxic (luckily I got out of it whilst pregnant with DS so he was never exposed to it) and although it never went this far, I can imagine him behaving like this. He very much likes to twist the truth to suit his own narrative and make himself out to be the victim. The soon to be ex told me that at Christmas, DS's dad had told her I wouldn't allow DS to spend the day with him and he would be alone when in fact we'd agreed (over text luckily) that DS would spend Christmas Eve with him and come to me Christmas morning because, his words, he would rather DS be around lots of family instead of it being a quiet one with just him and DS at home. There are many more examples of his worrying behaviour but I hope this gives enough of a glimpse of the situation without drip feeding.

Should I be concerned that DS is being exposed to this twice a week? I have no control over what he sees, hears or what he is told. Is his behaviour when he comes home typical 7 year old behaviour or could the situation at his dads be having a huge impact on his mental health and I should be doing something to protect him? How do I protect him without causing WW3 between his dad and me?

YABU - he is his dad and you shouldn't interfere.
YANBU - you have a right to be concerned and need to do something about it.

YANBU can the counsellor at school help

sounds tough OP. I wouldn't want my DS exposed to that behaviour. Not sure what to suggest but it's not fair on a young child.

This sounds really difficult and I am sorry to hear about the effect this is having on your poor DS.
What could you do though? By the way you describe him, your ex is not likely to listen to you or try to adapt his parenting...
Does your DS want to go to his Dad's?

Yanbu to be concerned I think we all would be in your situation.

I’m not sure exactly what you can do about it though.
If you stop contact would ex go to court for it?

If you can’t stop contact I suppose all you can do is keep all lines of communication open. School counsellor. Maybe look into researching ways to help children in this situation/how to get children to confide in you and ways to build up his confidence when he is with you.

It’s likely in time he will come to his own conclusions about who his dad is.

Hiya, this sounds exactly like what my dad did to us - used us as emotional weapons - (told my then undiagnosed autistic brother that if he went to mums for his weekend visit he would find him dead when he got back, he was 11) had a lasting damaging effect on me and all my siblings. I dont know 100% to suggest re contact and your husband but I would go in guns blazing with damage control for your son. So if you can private child therapist - speak to the school tell them this is serious and your son needs emotional support and basically anything you can think of.

DS's dad does not respond well to any requests I make to discuss DS/parenting style etc. He is immediately defensive. His own mum was not on the scene and I get the feeling he doesn't see my role in DS's life as an important one because his mum didn't fulfil her role with him.

DS is happy to go and see his dad. I don't think the word no is used very often when he is there so I am very much the bad guy when he comes home and he doesn't immediately get everything he wants. It's really hard, I spend the week picking up the pieces with a very tired, emotional little boy only for it to start all over again after 1 night with his dad.

Stopping contact would cause huge drama, I would hate for DS to think I prevented him from seeing his dad. I am seriously considering therapy but I don't know if I'm being OTT and he is just being 7?

I could try this route again however this stopped after one attempt after DS said he didn't want to talk to her and had me to talk to. I am so glad he feels like this but I don't know what to say to him without making him feel he has to tell tales on his dad.

His dad has a new "friend" who DS has already met. DS told me that his dad has told him not to say anything about this to soon to be ex because "he doesn't want another argument". The soon to be ex told me that DS had returned to their house feeling unwell and when she asked DS if he'd had any medicine he told her that daddy has told me not to tell you anything. It's so much to put on little shoulders. :(

Sorry to hear you went through this. 💐 It is exactly what I am trying to avoid for my son :(

I think this is all very concerning and you really do need to fight your little DS's corner as it can be so damaging. The things you are describing are not normal for a 7 yo but a cry for help and he needs to know you have his back and won't keep putting him in this harmful situation.

I don't think the school therapist sounds very good. Of course he isn't going to want to talk to her on his first session! My DD sees the school therapist and she does play and art with my DD which helps my DD work through her issues.

If I was in your position I would put a stop to him seeing his dad temporarily until the soon to be ex has left so hopefully his dad then can't put him in the middle.

Next, I would speak to pastoral care at school and see if they can help you navigate this situation. I would look at something like a referral to Early Help to get some proper support with this.

Thirdly, this must also be incredibly stressful for you so I'd make sure you look after yourself. Good Luck, OP 🌷

Hmm she’s his ex so I would take it with a pinch of salt, not saying it isn’t true but at the same time she’s his ex like I said, why does he go twice a week if you are so concerned? I’m guessing it’s court ordered?

Does the school have a play therapist or other support? It's really hard for a 7 year old to talk as they often can't express their emotions verbally.
Can you explore what other support school might have.
It is a really difficult situation for you, this behaviour will be impacting your DS but I cam see how limited you are in what you can do in terms of influencing ex DH behaviour or contact.
Does your son have any other male role models?

Because mothers do not have the right to veto the father of their children's contact with those children.

Are you suggesting OP unilaterally withholds contact?

Hmm she’s his ex so I would take it with a pinch of salt

So's OP. Are you taking HER words with "a pinch of salt"?
I doubt it. If you believe OP, why would you not believe the next ex?

Do you have a CAO op?

All of this.
Except suspending contact without agreement. That just hands OP's Ex a rod to beat her with.
Obviously, if it can be managed, it would be ideal for DS to withdraw for a little while, but as Ex seems the type to use any opportunity to make a loathsome arse of himself, I wouldn't risk it.

Is the school counsellor aware of the extent of Ex's erratic behaviour & emotional manipulation? If not, I might give her another chance. If she was, & was still so bloody useless as to - essentially - say "ok then, disturbed little boy, off you trot & keep all those feelings stuffed down!" - she's not worth bothering with.

Can you speak to your GP & get referred to a private therapist for DS?
It doesn't have to be about whether he wants to talk (yet) or not - as PP noted, there are myriad techniques available, & an experienced therapist will have several tried & tested methods up their sleeve. Your poor little boy OP - he needs to be helped to express himself.

I am so sorry for all your worry. Try to avoid MumGuilt won't you? - IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT that your ex is a selfish cunt.

Of course she can withhold contact if there are safeguarding concerns?! 🙄

I said be aware she’s his ex so she might not be telling 100% the truth.

Of course she can withhold contact if there are safeguarding concerns?! 🙄

Then she would need to first establish - c/o a third party authority - that there IS a safeguarding concern.

Otherwise, any parent could simply cry "safeguarding!" maliciously, when what they are actually up to is parental alienation. There needs to be a process in place that mitigates against that possibility.

No matter what she, PP or I think about this man's moral fibre & suitability or even safety as a parent, OP can't just say "you're not having him."

I said be aware she’s his ex so she might not be telling 100% the truth.

And, despite me pointing it out, you failed to notice that OP is ALSO his ex.
Might she also not be telling the truth?

Why do you believe the OP (as do I, btw) but not the more recent ex?

I am going to admit these replies are making me feel teary. I don't want to fail DS. He has never expressed concern about going to his dad's, there is no court order involved. His dad would make life HELL if I stopped contact. I want to go about it the right way. DS's dad needs help too, I know he harbours a lot of hurt and turmoil from his childhood but as awful as this sounds I can't take his problems on, I need to put DS's needs first.

@CandyApplePie I do realise some of it could be he said/she said but I was with him long enough to know he would absolutely behave like this, plus with the little bits that DS says when he comes home it does add up.

@SparklyShoesandTutus my husband has been in DS's life since he was a baby. We are happily married, we don't tend to row other than the odd bicker that families have. I'm confident that we are a content family. DS has definitely changed since this has been going on.

@KettrickenSmiled you've got that bang on!

I think I will call school and ask for a chat with them re the counselling again, I was considering calling the doctors/looking for private help. I just don't know how I manage things short term with DS going there. Soon to be ex suggested she is moving out within the next few weeks, I am hoping this means a calmer home life for DS when he is at dad's but I can't help but think the emotional turmoil will continue.

I would try and get him less involved without upsetting him. Would he take you up on having ds if you framed it as a help to him? Eg

"I realise it must be a bit tense at your houss just now, if you want to cut back on overnights for a few weeks I can help in the short term. Perhaps you and ds could do something fun together on a Sat afternoon?"

He might see right through it or take offence but if I could get him to step back a bit I would. Doing anything formally will take some time I imagine.

I know he harbours a lot of hurt and turmoil from his childhood but as awful as this sounds I can't take his problems on, I need to put DS's needs first.

Why do you feel this sounds "awful", my dear?

Even if you were still married to him, you would not be equipped to take his childhood problems on. He needs expert intervention but I'm gonna guess he won't seek it, because he reckons his behaviour is everybody else's fault.

And you are NOT married to him. You owe him nothing. Especially as he is a manipulative dick who puts his feeling above his own son's mental health.
What an absolute tosser.

It is something I have thought of doing - it's possible that he would catch on because he saw soon to be ex and I talking so he could put two and two together. I say he saw us, he actually came back out of his house and stood on his drive watching us talking and then asked her later if we'd had a good bitch about him 🤔he has told me previously that I shouldn't speak to her and he doesn't give me chance to knock on the front door when I drop DS off, he is always waiting and comes out to the car to get DS. I think possibly to try and make sure soon to be ex and I don't cross paths.

Sorry for the drip feed I keep remembering things that may or may not be relevant. He was actually parked up outside my house last night after posting something through the door when I wasn't in. He had text to say he'd posted and then I arrived home 15 mins after the text and he was still parked there. My husband also pulled up at the same time and I think had he not, DS's dad would have asked me about speaking to soon to be ex. He asked me about the plans for the weekend which we'd already agreed earlier in the day via text and then left.

You’re right, thank you for being so nice. You keep hitting the nail right on the head!

I agree it sounds awful for your ds.
I think he probably needs 'permission' from you to speak to anyone else. Children's loyalty can be huge and they worry that if they talk to anyone they will get parents into trouble.
So I would try telling him a story about a similar child and them talking to a safe person and how it helped etc.

I would also find a play therapist. I know one near us, who, when the child walks in, has lots of toys and art stuff out, and they start with that. School counsellor, may be excellent, or they may be a TA who has done a course.

If he does come out with anything safeguarding, then school will note it and follow up and hten it hasn't come from you.

You don't need a therapist. You just need to keep talking to him yourself. Anything the school counsellor does such as rawung and along and chatting you can also do. In a honesty this will not reach any threshold for counselling via your GP. It is unlikely to cause concern at school. Lots of kids unfortunately experience divorce and separation. The issue you have is your ex not having good boundaries. He needs to behave better and I suppose you need to tell him that.