Reference request - what to say?

[HonestyOrExpedience]

Posting for traffic, and NC'd in case outing.

Last year I had someone in my team in an administrator role on a fixed-term contract. She was pleasant and hard-working but she just couldn't cut it at the job. I gave her hours and hours of additional support and training over and above what would usually be the case in that (or any) role; she had a lengthy induction; clear action plans; weekly 1:1s; access to all sorts of written guides/training/previous examples of work, including recordings of training sessions that she could repeat as needed; she had a buddy; I encouraged her to join supportive networks; we went through Occupational Health in case there were underlying issues and implemented their recommendations...you name it, I/we tried it but she was simply a square peg in a round hole. Her CV suggested she had done similar roles and she said all the right things at interview (although things she let slip while working with us made it clear there had been some embellishments and omissions) but although she certainly had some strengths and skills, they weren't the ones needed for this job. When it came to the end of her FTC we let her go and didn't seek to explore renewing/extending her contract.

I have received a reference request for her and one of the questions is "would you re-employ X in a similar role?" Now I know I could simply tick 'yes' and she'll be someone else's problem, there'd be unlikely to be any comeback on me, but I have to sign a declaration that I've given honest information and the real answer is no, we absolutely wouldn't employ her again in that or any vaguely similar role!

WWYD?

As others have said - if I ever get that kind of reference request, even if an online form, I ignore it and email their HR/ the person who emailed it to me saying apologies, our policy is to confirm job title and employment dates only, which are xyz

This.

Ironically, one thing I have coached staff on is automatically obliging with requests for people we have no vested interest in helping. Not refusing to help - but not, by default, doing a task assigned to you by someone external that doesn't benefit the company.

Provide a reference in a format you are comfortable with and that complies with your employer's policy.

It is a new employer's responsibility to vet the staff they employ appropriately.

I'd do a bog-standard reference and send that to them, with a note saying that it is not company policy to go into the level of detail they have asked for in the online form.

Oh please OP, give this person a chance at another path in life. How is it within your domain to decide whether they can pay their rent this month or progress in their working life?

They’ve clearly carried on trying to get another job, not giving up after being somewhere that didn’t work out.
There’s being resilient and there’s being knocked down so far you can’t get back up again. Help them make a fresh start.

Quite. I couldn't give a toss what some company or organisation, to which I have no connection, thinks is 'mandatory'.

It's actually quite cheeky of a company to think they have the right to expect you to spend any time on this at all. You have no obligation to them whatsoever.

OP: do you have a company policy. For all we know, OP is the CEO & gets to decide the policy right now.

Google says, to be successfully sued: You must prove that your employer provided a poor or false reference with malicious intent. If the reference was provided without malice and your employer believed the contents of the reference to be true (even if they are untrue), then they can't be successfully sued for defamation.

That intent part is incredibly important. As long as you're simply being factual you aren't expressing malicious intent.

I employed a nanny once who screwed me over financially. Silly girl kept sending reference requests to me. I wrote them - stressing that I had no problems with her care of my child (which I didn't) - but writing the rest in such a way that it triggered the 'something is off here' response in prospective employers. I got a few phone calls from people asking about her, and one dad triumphantly said 'I KNEW there was more to this.' Again I stressed that she was a very good nanny and I had no complaints at all about the care of my child, but that she had taken her two weeks holiday pay in advance along with her months pay, and then cleared off and never came back. Basically warning them not to make the same mistake of paying the way I had. I guess she got in somewhere but I am still disappointed the way she treated me even now.

Don't answer the question. Just tell them the dates she worked for you and her job title. Nothing else.

Leave blank just put the dates the person worked with you no further details

If you think she was hard working and would well in another role perhaps tick yes but then explain in the notes you feel she has skills suited to x,y, z and would not rehire in x role but would consider for y roles as she was good at this or that.

You do NOT have to fill in their form. Most organisations just give dates and maybe job title.

Crikey no don’t complete it! Email back copying in your hr department and say they will action. If no hr department check your policy. Am laughing at the thought of being able to give honest feedback on a reference.

Again, think about it.

Part of your role is to protect the reputation of the company. That includes not opening them up to the chance of legal action, which is time consuming and expensive. My CEO chose to pay a settlement of notice in a slam dunk gross misconduct case because it was the most expedient way to handle a situation. And he was an ex union boss. He knew every HR trick in the book.

Unless your core business function is to vet staff for new employers, you don't have to do a damn thing to provide a bad reference.

You don’t HAVE to do a reference full stop. I would just print out a note on headed paper sting you don’t do references but can confirm the dates of employment and role. It’s very typical and won’t raise any questions.

Contact the other employer by phone and tell them the truth , verbally.

Speak to HR. Unless there is a reason to disclose more (for example if you work in financial services where it is mandatory to provide a reference for some staff),then most companies will provide a reference which says x worked for us from x date to y date in A role. In accordance with our standard reference policy we are unable to provide any further information. To do otherwise with people you do not know could incur significant liabilities for your firm.