AIBU thinking she's as bad?

[MrsDWashington]

I have a 13 year old DD who has been through the mill recently with regards to some bullying at school. Her whole friendship group ostracised her and one girl in particular wouldn't drop it. School involved and got a place at a new school and seeing school counsellor. However people were telling me that DD is just as nasty. Sporadically checking phone sometimes (not all the time) as I had cause for concern with all the social media bullying. Have found messages from DD to a family member at the same school who is older and stuck up for DD when bullying was happening. DD 2 weeks ago is having an argument with said family member over something. DD is using the word calling her a C@NT telling her she doesn't speak "Dog" instead of English and about the return of some clothes this girl has "You will give them back to me and do as I say". Now said family member is arguing back but right at the end states Im not falling out with you, you are family. This family has stuck up for my DD when she was bullied. I cannot help but be absolutely mortified at the way my DD is speaking. Said family member even called her a nasty nasty girl and people are saying DD is actually the bully. I am really at my wits end and I am struggling to cope. We have all fought for her when shes been being bullied. Am I wrong in thinking shes just as bad? I feel like getting in my car and just driving to get away

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No you're not wrong. That sort of behaviour deserves a reading of the riot act, however I think you also need to sit down with her and understand why she feels it's acceptable for to talk to people like that?

It sounds like yes, she was just as bad and may well have been the bully.

You need to talk to her. I know mners will have so many really helpful suggestions for you.

The teen years are tough. For them and for you.

Ime your dd would benefit from a few weeks without her phone if she can't manage to use it appropriately..

I am absolutely mortified. Obviously I have fought her corner when she was being bullied with school etc getting thing put in place.

But too many people are saying the same thing (this is coming from parents of the children shes at school with) that shes a nasty girl etc and she's horrible and now she's also been doing the same to an older family member who has stuck up for her throughout all her trouble at school.

DD's aunty was speaking to a parent whose son has said that DD used to be so lovely and kind and now she's completely changed.

See, I think there needs to be an element of punishment (being read riot act/ consequence of losing phone etc) but I'd also be seriously questioning what's caused her to change. Has something happened that you're not aware of? Is she dealing with something you don't know about?

It could just be that she's trying to be strong and stand up for herself, to be un-bully-able. She's young and doesn't know how to handle the bullying. I remember being bullied at that age and although I didn't retaliate or was mean to others, I look back and recognise I tried so hard to present an image of strength but had no clue how to go about it.

It might be that the only way she can understand to protect herself is to be aggressive to others.

When you think about it, adults don't know how to handle being bullied - the number of workplace bullying posts I've seen here! Yet we expect children to react in the right way when they're more clueless than we are (and often when schools fails to step in and protect them).

A drama teacher I knew used to do an exercise where she asked everyone to close their eyes, and then put their hand up if they had ever been bullied. Then she asked them instead to put their hand up if they had ever bullied someone. There were plenty of hands for each - plenty of kids have been on both ends.

It would be good to try and get to the bottom of why she's doing it. A useful tip for getting a teen talking is to do it either on a walk or a drive in the car - it's away from distractions, they can't stomp off, and not having any eye-contact helps!

It's always tricky to change patterns of behaviour, but it she wants to make changes it sounds as if this family member might try and help her do that.

It’s good that you can see what she’s doing wrong. Her friendship group may have got sick of her behaviour and ostracised her. Or they may have ostracised her and she became unhappy and aggressive. Or a bit of both. She may be stuck in a cycle and cant get out of the habit of being aggressive.

I’ve been her as a teen and I was unhappy. I’d have loved someone like you (and your lovely-sounding family member) to sit me down and tell me what I was doing wrong….Or would I??? I probably wouldn’t have listened or I’d have taken any criticism as a personal attack….Maybe instead of saying to her “You’re being horrible” try saying “that must have made X feel bad when you said that”. Often people with low self esteem cannot comprehend that they have the power to hurt others. Their aggression comes from sadness and anger rather than true sadism. Let her know very firmly that she does have this power and see if that gets through? Good luck.

Often people with low self esteem cannot comprehend that they have the power to hurt others

That's a brilliant observation

My own experience is that a rather large amount of time, the victim does the exact same stuff to others that happens to them

Being bullied and being a bully are not mutually exclusive. In fact the first can often lead to the second as the child tries to emulate the behaviour of the 'powerful' people. It may be that your DD has decided she doesn't want to be a victim and is now going too far in the other direction. I agree you need to talk to her.

She’s a nasty girl - just like the rest of them. I’m a teacher - the kids shock me with their nastiness. They act all sweet and innocent when they know I’m watching, but my god, the things that go on outside of school, and on phones, is awful. Call her out on it, make her aware of the tragic consequences of bullying with some real life examples in the news, give her the chance to change, and monitor her phone from now on, (if she is allowed it at all) as she can’t be trusted with the privilege. Maybe even get her involved with some kind of charity work or helping others.

I remember something happening in my DDs class at primary school. It went in for several years with no patterns being observed by the teachers. A girl who was really unpleasant, unkind and competitive was ostracised by the friendship group. Teachers intervened on a regular basis because the girls mother was constantly complaining so the poor kids spent hours having to workshop about why it wasn't nice to leave someone out. In the end a number of Mums (independent of each other and unknown to each other) went into say the bullying was the other way round and they couldn't allow their child to be forced to be friendly to their bully. Sadly, her birthed followed a similar pattern a few years after her.

I'm not saying this is what has happened with your DD but we'll done for considering how she might have contributed to this situation. That makes you a great Mum. Sadly, what you've read on her texts suggests she is a factor. I think you should consider the car ride chats and whether she might benefit from counselling that might get her consider the impact of her own behaviour. Many adults struggle with this so no doubt your DD may too. But she does need to be encouraged to think about the consequences of her behaviour and how she can avoid the same pattern as happened in her last school.