To ask if people of asian descent feel underrepresented?

[josil]

Please keep this thread polite I don't want it deleted! It's a sensitive question to ask which I'm aware of hence why I'm starting with the disclaimer to please keep the tone non-inflammatory this isn't intended to create any arguments just genuinely want to explore an issue.

I'm asking the question because particularly since BLM a lot of media corporations and people in general are much more aware and inclusive for black people (whilst it's not always perfect I think a lot of people are making the effort to be more inclusive for black people) you see us much more on tv ads and on clothing websites etc.

I just wandered how Asian people feel because I think there is a lack of representation - but also no one really campaigning for it?

I'm interested to hear your perspective on if it bothers you or not? Do you think there's an imbalanced focus on BLM and not on other races?

I appreciate each race has their own unique struggles but I do feel non white people have a unique understanding of each other in many ways when it comes to inclusivity.

Over time I have seen some greater detail in boxes on forms. Now sometimes there is a Chinese box that is separate from Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi. However I do notice that sometimes it isn’t there for mixed race people - so only White/Asian. Also, what about the Asians of other ethnicities: Nepalese, Kazakh, Thai, Korean, Japanese, Philippino?

would it be better to have larger categories of: South Asian, Central Asian, East Asian, South East Asian? I suppose the Arabian peninsula is also in Asia, so maybe Middle Eastern too?

Then to specify, they can include the larger groupings of people in UK (to avoid hundreds of boxes): Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Chinese etc. Then Other - with a chance to write down a specific group? other is perhaps not a nice term - but I dunno what would be better.

would Black people like more options on forms? I see Black, Caribbean and Black, African boxes.

Would people like to have Black East African, West African, South African, North African, North American, South American?

You compared BLM to BAME (if I understand). They're two completely different words for a start. And you also brought the topic of another ethnic group back to black people. I think that's what they're referring to

This. Personally I find it irritating. As I said in a meeting discussing a company’s new website, there’s more to diversity than black people and you don’t appear inclusive by shoving a black woman’s face (the same black woman’s face!) on every page.

And yes, there are plenty of South Asian people in the media - I’m thinking - and took the OP to be referring to - lazily cast commercials rather than “proper jobs”.

And I’ll stop right there and go and calm myself down by thinking about Eurovision.

I would imagine it might to be a self fulfilling situation where those from the Indian sub continent don't see themselves in the media so assume it's unlikely to be successful for them.
BLM forced a change for black people.

Hi, I am oriental British and it’s not offensive :) it weirdly is in the US, but over there they refer to East Asians as “Asians.” However, in the UK we refer to largely Muslim, Sikh and Indian countries as “Asian.” East Asia is oriental.

@josil to answer you question: yes, I do feel under represented. How many TV shows and films have oriental actors, especially in the UK? Not many. How many presenters on TV? None. How many writers, models etc? Barely any.

@stopthepain - some young relatives of mine do feel that ‘oriental’ promotes stereotypes like being ‘exotic’ and different which they don’t like. Personally I’m ok with it as long as people are not using it with malicious intent - but I think ‘East Asian’ is a less controversial description. I guess groups are not all homogenous in what they think.

I’m going to go ahead and say yes on behalf of my DCs.
They are mixed white and Southeast Asian but on the surface, my eldest and middle DCs look Asian and you wouldn’t know they are mixed. I’d never really thought about it before until Raya and The Last Dragon came on Disney Plus, and my eldest DD developed a full on obsession with it. Watching it multiple times a day, begging for the dolls, it became the theme of all her pretend play…eventually she told me she loved Raya so much because she looked like her. That’s when I realised how crap representation actually is for Asian kids.

I don't think it's common to find Oriental inoffensive, and indeed, if you look up the definition, the dictionary usually warns that it's seen as pejoratively.

East Asian, as you say, is uncontroversial.

I hear BBC a lot, but obviously that only works for people actually born over here, as opposed to people who were born abroad.

@stopthepain I'm a little surprised tiu don't think "oriental" is inappropriate. I thought it fell out of favour some time ago

@Sortilege yes always having to tick the other box that’s me as a Chinese person I never tick The Asian box as it isn’t correct.

@Ringmaster27 my DS is now 21 his favourite Disney film was Mulan.

Is anyone old enough to remember The Chinese Detective? I met David Yip at a lecture he gave about identity, it was probably about 25 years ago.

@theobligatorynamechange - as I grew up I heard it used by relatives who were all East Asian themselves. They must be in their 60s-80s now. They used it to refer to people whose ethnicity they were not sure of but who looked Chinese, Japanese, Korean. I wouldn’t choose to use ‘oriental’ now due to some people finding it offensive (use East Asian instead), but not all people read the same internet or news articles or keep up to date with current terminology.

BBC (British born Chinese) or ABC (American born Chinese) is a bit specific and you would need to know where they were born - as you say - and that they are Chinese. I suppose it is helpful to give an idea of a person’s history/cultural reference points.

Very interesting conversation. I am Indian and a fairly recent economic migrant into the UK. As a PP mentioned, I have strong ties back to the homeland and grew up with a different and unique social hierarchy. This means I am not bothered by representation in the UK media. I am pleasantly surprised and even amused when I see it but don't give it much more headspace.

But my daughter might feel different. She was born here and has grown up as a British citizen. She would probably feel miffed people like here aren't seen on the big or small screens.

I see much more representation in the US media- the Kaling Project, Big Bang theory etc. But the UK is woefully inadequate. Even with a long history of colonial migration, South Asian (or any Asian faces) are few and far between.

I'd like to see some hard hitting dramas, documentaries without the usual tired stereotypes of forced marriages, curry or poverty porn. Heck even some frothy mindless trash TV will be good.

Can I just make a point to this that keep hammering me for 'bunching asian people together' - I specifically made a point of saying I know that Asian people have differences and Chinese isn't the same as Indian etc etc - but the point I was making I still stick by it I am referring to Asian as a group yes!

The point I'm making on this thread is about Asian people as a group as not are well represented in the UK.

So please stop trying to twist certain posters my OP to make out I sound ignorant or something.

In the same way black people are different - African culture is not the same as Jamaican but when I'm referring to representation of black people in the media I would be talking about all groups of black people.

Every year BBC or ITV do a rehash of some old Raj splendour. They are stuck in the past. But things look different now. China, India and many SE Asian countries are rapidly changing political and economic forces. Their societies are changing too.

The UK hasn't twigged on to this and the media doesn't reflect this. Or they don't want to...

This is interesting. I'm South Asian decent, and I do occasionally think about representation in the media but can't say I'm overly bothered by it. I'm pleasantly surprised when I come across somebody semi famous in the UK and from my country of origin. There's a couple of well known DJs and a very well-known comic and a few TV actors. Considering that there's only a tiny amount of "my" people in the UK I think that's quite a good representation!

I'm not Asian myself, but my DC are half Filipino. TV/Film wise I can think of quite a few things with East Asian characters for adults (Always be my maybe, Crazy Rich Asians, The legend of Shang Li) but less for DC (A few episodes of Go Jetters/Super Wings and now Turning Red).

I agree the issues they may face are different though. An acquaintance wrote a really good article on the types of stereotyping Asian kids may face - let me see if I can find it.

www.bbc.co.uk/teach/teacher-support/supporting-your-esea-pupils-and-students/zn4cbqt

Here it is.

It’s important to consider the demographic differences between British Asian communities. There has been some interesting analysis of the swell of Tory support in British Hindu communities in recent years. I’m not a great fan of their politics but if you are looking for representation in positions of power it is worth remembering that currently the Chancellor, Home Secretary, SoS for Education, and Attorney General are all of south Asian heritage, as is the Mayor of London.

Conversely I found it really striking that it was such a big and important deal for a darker-skinned woman of Tamil Indian heritage to be cast as the romantic lead in s2 of Bridgerton.

would Black people like more options on forms? I see Black, Caribbean and Black, African boxes.
Would people like to have Black East African, West African, South African, North African, North American, South American?

Can I just point out that none of the South Americans I know view themselves as black and since there is not any kind of 'south american' section on forms in the uK always tick 'white' or 'other'. I know in the US there is a tendency to group black and 'Hispanic' (problematic term itself) people together due to racism but that doesn't mean south americans are black, and how people view themselves varies widely across the continent. An upper middle class white or mestizo Chilean doesn't have much in common with a Surinamese maroon.

@JaninaDuszejko - sorry - I didn’t mean to imply that all South Americans were black, just like all North Americans are not black. I have known white Brazilians and Mexicans (distant relative by marriage). I Just thought that there may be black South Americans (though perhaps I don’t know how they would refer to themselves or like to describe themselves on forms).

I haven't hammered you, but I don't think it's helpful to talk about Asian people being underrepresented if you mean everyone with an ethnicity that comes from the continent of Asia. Because it's not true. I think Indian people are very well represented, for example.

Chinese people? Far less so.

@theobligatorynamechange I disagree - the Indian population is far bigger than black people in the UK yet the representation of black people is far greater it is highly disproportionate.

Yes I agree more Indians are represented compared to Chinese but it's all very disproportionate

Represented where? As a pp points out have you looked at the Cabinet lately? Two of the four Great Offices of State are held by ministers of Indian descent. The ministers for health, education, the cabinet office and the attorney general are all of south Asian heritage. In contrast Kwasi Kwarteng is currently the only Black minister in the Cabinet.

@HermioneAndRoger I'm referring to the media in general not specifically politics.

So think...tv presenters, advertisements, singers, footballers, majority of what you see on TV basically.