To not understand the point of SATS?

[SweetSakura]

I'm lucky I guess, DS has tended to do very well on past papers etc so has been quite relaxed about them. But he has been bemused by the fact teachers /TAs have been going round giving a lot of help with answering the questions!
In two cases he said the TA definitely got it wrong as well. (his friend from another school, also very able was over and agreed with DS about the question and the correct answer )

Surely they are pointless if this happens in some schools (DS friend didn't see it happen in his school to be fair)

Yes I know. Just responding to the posters itching for you to do so!

They can be quite useful for predicting grades and to help setting in Yr 7. Students that get between 80-90 are likely to need more support and can be identified early which is particularly useful if no learning needs have been identified officially at Primary. Children getting between 110-120 need alot more challenge and can be put into specific sets.

Generally, but not always the Sat's results track all the way up to Yr 11. Exceptions tend to be children who speak English as a second language who hadnt picked it up enough in Primary but make great improvement in secondary. It's also quite obvious who has perhaps been given more help than they should have in Yr 6 Sat's as they simply never perform to that level during their time at high school. Those students then need extra input as previous high achievers who are under performing.

Obviously she is not going to report it because its her sons school and she wouldn't want her own sons SATs publicly undermined, especially if he is getting full marks on everything....

On balance of probability your son has probably got his wires crossed anyway - very few schools would risk cheating, and if they were going to take that risk they wouldn't allow a TA to be giving the wrong answers!

Just ring the school in the morning and mention it - exactly and precisely as your son reported it. the school will investigate, and it will either be proved or disproved, and the integrity of the SATs (if such a test is to be useful at all, it at least has to be fair) will hopefully be maintained.

We have had parents ring in with things their children have said, in a 'my child said this, not sure if it's true, knew you'd want to know' way. Carefully, fully and quickly investigated and sorted. Not a particularly fun thing to have to deal with, but just part of the job. Much better to mention it rather than continue to snipe from the sidelines about what might have happened.

I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest reporting it. I've worked so hard with my class all year and it breaks my heart their results will be affected by others cheating. And no - it's not about the reflection on us as a school.
They should absolutely be scrapped. For the last 6 years my pay and appraisal targets have been based on my class' sats results. It's so unhealthy.

Exactly. Shame the Dfe don’t understand statistics and expect more than 50% of children to be above average.

It would be better to use wider ability range standardised assessments though. SATs are so narrow and don’t give a lot of helpful information apart from 3 broad groups.

Having worked as a TA and seen the amount of teaching to the test that goes on, I’m amazed that the DfE are still using such a clumsy tool. My school spent months doing endless past papers in preparation rather than focussing on a broad curriculum. The children that didn’t do so well in the practice papers were then ‘hot housed’ to fill their gaps rather than because they needed help in a broader area. The whole class was even sent home with additional papers as homework. There was a definite air of pressure in the weeks before and noises made about how ‘disappointing’ it would be if anyone was off sick because - and I’m not sure if this is still the case - a registered pupil not sitting a paper on the day was recorded as a nil, which would pull the overall school average score down. Unwell children were encouraged to come in for the hour or so and do their SATs in a separate room with another member of staff.

SATs were supposedly brought in to ensure that pupils were meeting a satisfactory standard of education at particular stages. If that was the case, why are pupils even required to put their names on the papers, why not an anonymous number? Surely, if OFSTED inspections were truly fit for purpose, SATs tests would be irrelevant and redundant? Ironically, as others have posted, my DD is a secondary school teacher and has said on numerous occasions that the SAT scores many new Y7 pupils arrive with, have no reflection on their true ability.

Teacher here .
our head teacher and deputy were rubbing out answers and correcting them / dropping huge hints / hunting to answers

I feel awful saying this now - I’ve just handed in my notice but it was absolutely a farce ! People were too scared to whistleblow .

It was the same for the phonics screens !

I imagine most school data is heavily manipulated by teachers sunder pressure ! I will say no more .

@litte that sounds awful. It must have put you in a horrible position

@lynn I couldn't give a monkeys about his sats results. I would rather he could have spent the past months learning more broadly!
I don't understand the veiled hatred of very bright people. He can't help it. I don't push him. It just comes easily to him. He has plenty of health battles so life isn't all sunshine and roses for him if that helps you feel less resentful. I just feel lucky for every year he gets to live to see another birthday

Noone does. Least all teachers

@Littepinkyogapants I’m a year 6 teacher and I don’t cheat or manipulate my data. I think you’ve obviously been unlucky. Most of us don’t.
We do practice- why is that so awful? And I give them biscuits before as some of ours don’t get breakfast.
I think the tests aren’t the problem, it’s what that data is used for. If we used it just to assess then all well and good. But a primary can only really be good if their results are good, so in comes Ofsted.

Agree with this. Yes, it's frustrating when you glance at a child's paper and they've misunderstood a question, but you can't tell them to have another look at it, because by doing so you would be telling them they have got the answer wrong.
Obviously we do some practice papers throughout the year (3 or4 of each), which means they are familiar with the format when they sit them, but don't send papers home for homework, or spend weeks practicing in lessons. This week apart from the tests, they have done art, PE or ICT lessons -certainly no English and Maths.
We open early and offer them breakfast, so they have a nice relaxed start to the day. Our children are not stressed, because they know all they have to do is try to do the best they can to show what they know. We know which children are unlikely to make expected standard and would not cheat to boost their marks.

Practising not practicing!

I understand why people criticise SATS.

But the system has benefits as well, and personally I found it was very helpful for children like DD2. (DD1 missed out due to lockdown)

Why we liked the SATS process:

1. It provided a set of age-appropriate learning objectives to master. Not a complete set; but a useful set.


2. It was a challenge - especially because lockdown interrupted school for a year - but a challenge she was ready for.


3. I started working with her in addition to what she was doing at school in January; and she learnt what it feels like to study regularly but gradually for an extended period of 4 months.


4. Past papers showed her the benefit of studying as she could see her results improving.


5. There were lots of useful free resources on the internet. And reasonably priced exercise books on Amazon.


6. She learnt useful lessons about checking her work, pacing herself in a test, and reading questions carefully etc.


7. She and I feel she is now better prepared for the challenges she will face at secondary school.


8. She is happy and proud of herself this evening after finishing the final SATS paper. She is also proud of other things she did this year.


9. She is looking forward to the celebratory party the school has organised tomorrow afternoon.


10. The week was well-organised. Tests in the morning in the school hall. Usual break times. And other activities in the afternoon.


11. She won't receive results until July, when they will be of mild interest. She already believes the tests went well.


12. Her results will (roughly) reflect what she can achieve when she applies herself and be one (of several) indicators of her potential at secondary school.

Like most public policies, SATS suits some better than others.
The question is whether it is overall beneficial, and whether there are specific adjustments that would make it better.
Answering those questions would take quite alot of research.

They are pointless. The first thing they did when I started secondary was retest all of us in every subject to set us as sats where seen as taught to rather useful, same for my brother 4 years later and my sons secondary did the same.

there is a school locally that always get good results yet the secondary admit that the majority of children couldn’t of possible of got the scores given.

You are wrong about this. Most schools follow the rules to the letter. Staff know it wouldn't be worth losing their job over and that is what would happen if they were caught cheating. The tests have to stay within vision of at least 2 members of staff or be in a secure locked cupboard at all times. Moderators can and do drop in without notice. If your school has 2 SLT who are so unprofessional then I think you should whistle-blow, not post on social media and suggest that all schools are doing the same. They most certainly are not.

I used to be a secondary school teacher back when they had year 9 SATS. 'Teaching to the test', which all teachers are pretty much compelled to do, was the most soul destroying part of my teaching career.

SATS are utterly pointless - not only do they measure a ridiculously narrow range of skills/knowledge but there is no like-for-like comparison of grades over the years. Some years we found the grades ridiculously inflated, other years the grading was overly harsh.

My son is 2 years away from SATS and I'm seriously considering withdrawing him from school for test week and just sucking up the fine.

On balance of probability your son has probably got his wires crossed anyway - very few schools would risk cheating

Some schools absolutely do cheat. It is then quite apparent at secondary school when kids from certain feeder schools consistently have data which doesn't match their ability.

You should report it! This is the second thread I've read today about schools cheating on SATs. It does make it pointless if that is widespread but it wasn't my experience of being in school. Where I worked it was taken very seriously and a staff member got into loads of trouble for helping a child in KS1 SATs (she was just soft-hearted and didn't like seeing the child struggle). It was a huge drama with people coming into the school to check everything.

www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-report-maladministration-at-key-stage-1-and-key-stage-2

My DC was excluded from doing SATS as he couldn't read well enough - we were just told he should not attend school on the day of the exam. Makes the whole exercise pointless in my view.

They have a purpose for sure; to measure the effectiveness of the school in certain areas, to ensure the curriculum is being taught, to get children used to working in exam conditions. The popular suggestion that they are pointless and of no benefit is false. I'm sure we could all do a better job of education secretary blah blah blah but schools do need to be held to account in some form or another.

I'm not a fan of SATS but I can see a need for some sort of standard assessment at year 6.

I work in secondary and part of my job is looking at data and although I’m really not a fan of SATS for all the reasons already mentioned, I have missed having the data. No one test can be relied upon to measure a child’s ability or potential, we to a cognitive assessment test battery when kids join in year 7 and in normal years we look at this alongside SAT scores and teacher assessment to assess progress and decide on what intervention work is needed. Without SAT we’ve just had the CAT and teacher assessment and I’m afraid sometimes teachers assessments are not at all reliable in KS3.

Depending on your school that may prove challenging.

KS1 sats don't have a fixed week with tests on specific days. There is a bigger window for assessment. We do ours over 3 weeks in groups and absent children get theirs done before the deadline.