To ask my new employer for clarification?

[Mw19]

I've got a new job account managing the Northern Territory. Some days I'll be out and about at visits and appointments but mostly I'll be working from home.

They've sent me a contract to sign which says my normal place of work is their London office but I was expecting the contract to reflect home working and my normal place of work to be my address? (I live in York).

I'm only expected to go to the London office twice a month (maximum four times a month).

Should I insist it is amended to reflect home working? Expenses wise I'm thinking that I may not be able to claim any travel expenses for travelling to the London office if my contract states that's where I work anyway? Plus they could turn around and say I need to work from the office all the time which I can't do.

how much do you need the job, OP? I don't think i'd take it if i had to travel to London up to 4 times a month. I'd ask it be reduced to 1-2 max and that you have a WFH based contract. (can you claim travel to London on your tax return in that case?)

And talk of advance bought tickets is fine but IME these trips tend to come up spontaneously the day before because it's urgent.

OP i work in a field based role on the Midlands and know many people in similar roles. None of us are expected to pay for our own travel anywhere. We have corporate credit cards to pay train fares and claim fuel allowance for anything we drive. This is the norm in my industry. Are you getting a company car or car allowance at all?

These are my thoughts exactly. That my presence in the office is more likely to be last minute than planned 4 weeks in advance! So I'm not sure I'd have much choice in terms of selecting a low cost fare.

I don't need the job, they approached me. It would be a career change which does excite me a bit and I thought it would be a nice (and deserving) pay rise.

At the end of her email she's said

"Very happy to discuss on an individual/circumstantial basis, as we never want you to feel out of pocket as a result of work requirements".

But I'm unsure what I want to agree on. I need to decide whether I'd be happy paying for up to maximum twice a month or whether I want a salary adjustment or something.

My induction/training will involve 2 weeks in London. Surely I'm not paying for that too? They know my sister lives in Surrey so I wonder if they're banking on that but I can't stay at hers for 2 weeks on the sofa :/

Thanks for confirming, I have many friends also in field roles who say this is very unusual and all their expenses are paid or they're given a card.

No I won't get a car or car allowance but I'll get 45p per mile

I agree it does sound tight of them to not fund your trips to London when your job is visiting clients in the 'Northern Territory' (when I first read this I thought you were in Australia) and most of the time you are required to WFH or travel around your local area.

Definitely change your normal place of work to home in your contract, because if it stayed as London, not only would they not fund your travel there, but some employers might not fund any of your other travel, as it is a shorter journey than your 'normal' home to office travel. You would then expect to be paid the London rate, but this is unlikely to be so much higher that it would fund so much regular travel.

Best case scenario is that your contract states your normal place of work is at home and that all travel including regionally and to London but if they won't pay for the London trips you could try and ask for a higher salary to offset some of the cost. How are they funding your regional travel btw? You'd have to make a decision based on how much you want to the job and how it compares as a package to your current one. And they'll also be deciding how much they want you, compared to the second choice candidate. If they don't have room to manoevere, it could be that they'd prefer to hire them instead.

But it could just be down to lazy or ineffective HR, which wouldn't be unusual, they're often distanced from the people making decisions about hiring and don't think about the practicalities of the role.

I think it's to do with expeses and claiming for travel, isn't it?

DH was mainly working from home but his office was listed in his contract as the one that is 15 miles away. He never went there. When he went to Head Office, he could claim his mileage.

I very much doubt there is anything sinister. More to do with tax and expenses.

Cross posted. In that case, don't be afraid to push back. I'd go for all London travel funded, including accommodation for the initial training. Or a pay rise of a similar amount. If they approached you, they must quite like you to work for them.

Be aware that if you do more than 10 000 miles a year, the mileage rate will drop to 25 p a mile, as this is in line with HMRC rates and if they paid more you'd have to be taxed on it.

Yes, ask for all travel and any accommodation costs for head office / training to be funded.

There might also be a wider issue with claiming expenses and possibly a tax break. Sometimes you can claim only for the part of the journey that exceeds your normal commute. If your "normal" commute were 200 miles you couldn't claim much day to day travel back. There used to be a specific tax break along these lines (on petrol duty maybe? you claim from government direct, not through work) , not sure if it's still there now.

I wouldn't assume anything underhand but you're right to be questioning it.

Honestly? You can ask but I doubt they’ll give it.
DP currently works for a London firm with a similar contract. It’s a small startup so they’re unlikely to suddenly start asking people to come in.

He has to pay for everything (travel, hotel,expenses) out of his own pocket though. It costs him c.£200 a month as he travels on his own and doesn’t want to sleep in cheap, shitty hotels.

While the salary is higher than his previous job (on paper) after deducting this… it’s really not. He’s happy though, and the bigger salary will get us a larger mortgage so it’s not all bad I guess.

You have to decide whether it’s worth it, if they say no.

You need to work through the link XrayFish and have your permanent place of work changed from London to WFH.
The contract organises your legal status and is important as it states what you agree to do in exchange for payment.
If not your job can lawfully get rid of you by requesting you attend the London office on a daily basis and then begin a disiplinary process based on needing you in the office.
Plus business expenditure must meet HMRC guidelines if not you could end up with a tax bill.
You need to have your new employer examine the work carried out in London to determine if this is also a permanent work place. They, as employer, need to get tax advice to decide if the trips to London are a business expense or not. As you will not be the only non-London based employee I would be careful accepting if they are not willing to invest in tax/legal advice for a long term employee payments.

If you get paid £2.5k+pa for travel to London and you to get it wrong over a number of years quickly builds into big tax bill.

They have actually recruited someone in the north with an office in London, but they could presumably have hired someone in London, who would travel to the north to carry out the duties and this expense would be paid as it would be travel from the office...so either they pay for travel and expenses to London or they pay theoretical travel and expenses from London to the north to compensate. The fact that they recruited someone from the north to cover the north intimates that they know you are not based in London as it would be too expensive to pay for you to keep travelling to the north.

I'm saying that as someone who travelled to London twice a week from the Midlands, I'd never have done that if they hadn't paid for it as that would have been all my wages spent.

You need to be home based on your contract or any expenses you claim for travel to London will be a taxable benefit

But I'm unsure what I want to agree on. I need to decide whether I'd be happy paying for up to maximum twice a month or whether I want a salary adjustment or something.

They approached you? Be bold with what you want them to offer to make you come to them. Including: you have a WFH contract and your trips for work, either client visiting or visiting Head (or other) offices is covered. That you have hotels and so on covered (is there a per diems) and definitely for your 2 week training they should cover all hotel, food and travel expenses. Otherwise, why would you work for them? I've found over the years that it helps to haggle a bit. But also have a bottom line that you will not cross (that and thinking "what would a man say?")

You live in the North. Your work is based in the North. There is no reason to have the London office listed as your main place of work, and it could cause you no end of trouble. You need a contract that states you are based at home with regional travel (their expenses policy doesn't seem totally clear though). You should be paid to travel to London. This sounds dodgy to me (I work for a union). When issues like this crop up right away, I start wondering what will happen next.

OP,

If they are trying to screw you before you start, you are getting a taster of what will come.

Assume nothing.

Ask the questions and get every answer on paper before you accept.

Asking questions via email is best.

Travelling to London every week is expensive.

Ask for everything to be spelt out clearly.

If they have said max 4 times a month, take it that it will be 4 times a month.

You will be unable to complain if it is that.

London, every week, to your cost and on your time.

When you dig into the deal, is it actually any good.

If you want to change job do, but not for a job that costs you money and time.

I think it's always worth being very direct but polite in stating your needs. Explain that four trips to the office would cost you £800 door to door travelling at peak times and that the salary they offer doesn't reflect this. Either they include a travel package or they guarantee no more than two office trips per month, or you negotiate a better salary. Be prepared to walk away in a very polite professional manner. IME they suddenly find they can after all meet expenses etc.

The manager is also being disingenuous IMO! The issue is obvious and if her statement is genuine, she has the means to address it.

I am expected to attend head office but have my travel expenses paid. Travel to my local office comes out of my salary. Peak travel to London from my station can be up to £150 which 4 x a month after tax out of my own pocket is unaffordable so definitely needs either they cover or they London weight your salary by after tax £800 per month.

Is he getting equity in the startup? If he is contributing €3k a year to pay for business expenses is there a long term the payback plan in place?

Just being nosey 😀 you have worked out the job has a hidden cost to DP and that it "looks good on paper" is not income putting cash in the bank.

If the company cant afford to pay normal business expenses your DP's cash injection has real economic power/value in keeping the company going.