Ex crying on call - aibu to stop contact

[Prollynot]

My abusive ex and I are in court over child arrangements, they are doing section 7 and in meantime I'm agreeing to calls and supervised contact only. Last call with dd 11 he was crying about missing them. Dd was very upset after call, we had a cuddle and I spoke to her about being able to love and miss a person but also seeing that they haven't treated you well and need to change. I don't know if this is part of his manipulation or he's genuinely upset, but I'm thinking of stopping calls and doing supervised contact only (during which he's fine)? Or is that unreasonable?

If I ask him not to upset children by crying, how can I word this in a way that won't make me look like the bad guy in court? I'm feeling vulnerable, please kind constructive advice only..

For further context, abuse was coercive controlling behaviour, lots of angry outbursts directed at myself and children, controlling where we could go/who we could see etc.

Adults cry. Not necessarily a bad thing for your dc to know. I'd let your child know they cam end the phonecall though, if it's upsetting them and arrange to speak another time

Yes that's true..I guess I just don't know what is real anymore with him.. The dynamic is such that they'd never dare to just end a call with him, scared of his reaction.

I would tell him that his crying is upsetting the children quite a lot and if hes feeling quite upset before a call, change it for another time when he can hold himself together..

If you are having a S7 can you ask the SW/Cafcass?

You can say that you are worried about his behaviour being manipulative. It's also making your DD responsible for his happiness. This will influence how often she wants to see him. It isn't in the children's interest to see him so upset. It would be worrying if he can't control his emotion.s enough to have a conversation with his children. It could easily turn into emotional abuse.

As you know, this behaviour can be manipulative. He very possibly is behaving this way on purpose unfortunately. You know him very well- what is your gut telling you?

In 20 year I've known him I've not seen him cry but this does feel manipulative. He is asking dd what she is missing about him and then that made him cry. He is telling her it will all change very soon when he knows it won't. He's tried to force unsupervised access and is very angry at me. I actually feel anxious about his behaviour but trying not to overreact.

Speak to the SW, but as contact is in the best interests of the child, and he’s using it to manipulate and Upset her.

if he’s fine when supervised then personally I’d be saying “well it’s obvious that calls are distressing you and nobody wants to see that, so we’ll stick to the (supervised) contact visits for now, as you’ve clearly got too much going on”

I haven't been assigned a case worker yet but I will mention it when I do. I am not sure Cafcass can be contacted in between assessments when you have concerns?

Could you message him? Tell him you are going to record the calls to sharebwith SW? That will likely change his attitude?

Manipulative crying is very different to crying if you are genuinely upset.

A relative is going through a similar thing at the moment. It comes and goes, usually triggered by him feeling like he's not getting the upper hand. It's not good for the children to see in this sort of environment and it starts another round of them asking why my relative isn't with her ex. It's difficult for her because they are too young to really explain all the abuse she suffered.

The ex has always done the crying thing, even in an interview room with the police and I think it stems from learnt behaviour in childhood. I think it got them out of trouble then and they've never stopped.

For context the ex seems his children regullarly and it's years since the split.

My relative has considered whether to talk to her ex about it, but grey rock is really only the way to deal with him. Any communication leads to him taking advantage and turning it back on her. She can't have a reasonable conversation with him.

Sorry that wasn't much help op, but I do understand what you are dealing with.

@knittingaddict thank you. Yes, I also find that the more I try to be the 'reasonable' person and engage with him, the worse it gets. So I've limited contact to the practicalities of child contact and that it it. But I feel so sorry for my girls having to navigate all this..

I recorded calls in the beginning and he thinks I'm still doing so, it's obviously not stopping him.