Teacher training

[Princesselsa1]

Considering a career change. I have fallen out of love with my well paid but DULL job. I’m nearly 40 and still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up 😂I enjoy working with young people having volunteered with a youth group in recent years. I currently sit in my bedroom on a computer and work pretty much alone. It’s driving me crazy.

I was looking at teaching. I’m a biochemistry graduate so could teach science. I’d be interested in other subjects too. Not just the ones that pay a bursary.

i thought they were crying out for teachers. Why make the training so bloody complicated? I can’t travel an hour to my closest university! I have 3 kids of my own. Plus the training when you could be at a school of your choice for first term then after spring you get shipped off to a mystery school. The earliest I can drop my kids off is 8am.

plus lots of subjects YOU need to pay ridiculous fees. And the starting salary is awful!

Am I missing something here?

The way I would do it would be fully on the job plus remote “lectures”. And in one school, with short bursts at other LOCAL schools. I literally can’t see that this is a job that you’d want to train for as a mum with kids.

it’s such a shame because I think I’d be quite good and can see That it would be enjoyable.

£21,000?? Surely not? Starting wage is around £28,000 in Scotland…

Why do you teach then? I’m not sure I would even be leonardo dicaprios personal assistant for 21k! and trust me I would love to do that job 😀

I couldn't afford to live on that I’m afraid.

I am a professional and I have stress and long hours, shitty management Etc. but I do expect to be compensated properly.

I have complete respect for teachers but the system is broken and it’s so sad. I love kids and enjoy working with young people but I just wouldn’t be able to survive on that money.

Ive given up on the idea… I’d be crazy to go there based on all the negative feedback. But this thread has been very eye opening.

Teaching is not family friendly. Teaching full time with young children is very stressful. Pre kids I was in work at 7:30 every day now I can't get in with 2 drops offs before 8:30 even though I have a short commute. I am coping as I've been teaching 20 years. I wouldn't recommend any parent went into teaching unless their kids were secondary plus age or have a very available and supportive oh. My dh is also a teacher with a longer commute 🙈. We have hols off though... but still have to pay for childcare as no term time places locally.

@DrDreReturns They're the hours of trained teachers too.

in any profession, including my own, I wouldn’t feel comfortable working 7:30am-11pm (unpaid) in a high responsibility role that is stressful. Burning out every holiday etc. even if I LOVED my work… that’s a total piss take.

You're right - it is a piss take. You've summed it up completely.

I did a PGCE when my DCs were 10 and 6. It was doable because DH was at home so I could be completely flexible. The uni was in the north west and people in my cohort were sent as far as Whitby and Luton for their placements. I was spared that because I had DCs and it helped that I was able to arrange one of my own placements.

I gave up school teaching three years after qualifying as the hours you mention above are only sustainable for so long. The holidays aren't worth all the other crap. I still teach and am enjoying it again but I would never go back to teaching in a school. The bit you said before about people saying you're not worthy? As a school teacher you get that message from multiple sources (SLT, parents, government, OFTSED...) every day.

For those asking why, given all the negative experiences we have spoken about, do we still do it? Because teaching itself is absolutely the best thing ever, the children, the subjects, the camaraderie ( in some schools) the rush that you get when a child says " oh, I didn't know that" and now they do. There is no better feeling in the whole world. It makes up for all the rest of the shit we have to deal with. ( and yes, we do know that other professions work as hard, have long hours and just as much crap to deal with!)
Off to make breakfast for my Yr 6s who have SATS this week😥

OP, I’m not sure if you’re still interested but with some SCITTs there is no obligation to travel to a university as the training is at your school in the evening. There are also apprenticeship routes with no fees. The proposed plans are to raise the starting salary to 30k in the next few years and the bursaries for training are relative liveable - depending on circumstance - as they are tax free and you can still apply for a maintenance loan. The training is difficult and it then takes a couple more years to feel secure in the role but once you do, and if you find a good school with a positive outlook on work/life balance, the job is manageable and dare I say quite enjoyable for some. They will always be crying out for teachers so you don’t have to decide right now.

OP as a science graduate you will be in demand. But remember you are looking at pay and conditions though the lens of a private sector employee.
Of course the money and hours are a total piss take! It is a very unfriendly career to those with young children, and remember whilst the summer holidays are great there is not grabbing a week off I you feel like a break, or even a day for wedding etc. But one word you have missed is its a vocation..hence the blood sweat and tears.
You said you love kids and have done some work with them. Could l suggest you contact your local.seconday and shadow a science teacher for a week to see if you feel the same.

21k doesn't make sense because my starting salary, in a state school as NQT 11 years ago, was 25k. I earn more than double that now FTE (although I'm in an independent school, and 0.6 part time now).

I don't think pay is that bad as a teacher. And after my first three years or so it did become a fairly easy job, with long holidays.

But your contempt for the profession really does show. Would you want your kids to be taught by someone with your attitude?

I’m starting a primary pgce with a 2 year old and a 6 year old this sept, I know it will be hard work but most things are in life.
I know a few teachers with young kids (I teach nursery kids currently) and they always picking them up at 4.30ish, not every teacher works these long hours, especially in the younger years where there is minimal marking. I will report back on how hard it was in a year haha

Minimal marking perhaps but a huge amount of planning, record keeping and assessment.

Don't do it. There are other jobs you could do if you want to work with or have an impact on young people. Maybe working on your current field but in a third sector organisation related to young people or education ? Teaching is for young people or people with no other commitments and a lot of stamina. It's also not something to be recommended for more than five years as you will burn out. Just my opinion from bitter experience.

The revised eyfs has aimed to hugely reduce planning and assessment, its just about knowing your children and being able to justify resources and learning experiences.

“But your contempt for the profession really does show. Would you want your kids to be taught by someone with your attitude?”

I disagree. What you are seeing is utter shock at the system! What attitude should a teacher have exactly?

Why would you want you kids taught by people that are “burnt out”, “crying with tiredness at 1am” and “unhappy”…. This isn’t right either. Surely there can be a happy medium. I know a few of you have found good schools but most of you are not happy.

it’s not a dig at teachers, it’s a dig at the system.

I used to mentor trainees. Realistically if you're dropping kids off at 8 and the school is on your doorstep, that's going to be say 820 by the time you drive into the school car park. Sign in, coat off, bag in locker, lunch in fridge, 825 say. We used to have our morning briefing at around 840. So when are you going to set up the classroom? When are you going to go over the lesson plan with the class teacher? Their non teaching time probably isn't going to correspond with yours so it's going to have to be before or after school. And if you're in secondary it's likely this is going to need to be done with more than one teacher. When are you going to do photocopying or whatever else needs doing?
You may be able to turn up at that time with a few years worth of resources under your belt but as a trainee? It's just not going to work.
And then what happens at the end of the day? You can't go and pick your own kids up as the bell rings? Yes you can and will have to take work home but there's a fair amount of stuff that needs to be done on school premises.
Like other posters I get the distinct impression you think it's 9 until 315

You will need to consider childcare issues as you will need to be in school fairly early. I'm in a fairly relaxed school where there isn't any presentism and the school itself has rules regarding not being open too early or too late. But all staff, including teachers and TAs must be in school by 8:30am (doors open for children from 8:40am) and every teacher and most TAs are in between 7:45-8:10am.

End of the day isn't so bad, due to the more relaxed environment (and no doubt that we all take work home!) - earliest anyone can leave is 3:30pm but it's rare to see the teachers and more senior TAs leave before 4pm, usually closer to 4:30pm. Meetings once or twice a week run til 4:45pm. Twilights run til 6pm and the odd after school parent session will be later. School is closed from 6pm, post covid almost all our staff leave earlier but work from home in evenings.

Teaching is a fabulous job overall, but it isn't necessarily family friendly despite the longer periods of time when your not in school - I'm not writing 'holidays' as not all of those weeks when children aren't in school are actual holidays as such for teaching staff, as many will work through some of them. Obviously even taking that into account you can decent number of holidays but term time isn't really that family friendly and hasn't been for many years.

“Like other posters I get the distinct impression you think it's 9 until 315“

like I said… my sibling is a teacher so I do have some idea

also, my kids are in childcare 8am-6pm. There are 3 of them so it costs a decent amount. Hence why I need to earn a certain amount… to afford that and other bills.

Yes I'm sorry, rereading your posts I think I misjudged you and I was doing a bit of projection there of things people have said to me IRL. I read a lot of "the way I would do it is..." but I've realised you mean, if you were reorganising the teacher training system, rather than, if you were saving a school with your teaching.

It's true that teacher training was a bit too tough (for me). The expectations of me in the classroom was justifiably high (although it was a shock to me age 22) but there was also a lot of needless paperwork, and I'm bad at that stuff. (I'm pretty sure I have undiagnosed adhd but that's another story and not an excuse just an explanation). However I got away with it by developing a good relationship with my uni tutor and realising how little I could just about get away with.

Don't let this thread put you off. (You can't have been seriously considering it if one mumsnet thread has put you off your planned career change?)

It is very possible to be happy and even relaxed as a teacher. I am and have been for many years. My tips for this are:

• don't ever aim for perfection. Good enough is good enough for a lesson
• don't go into management
• become very knowledgeable in your subject. This means you can get away with time saving strategies like the three step lesson plan (planning your lesson in the three steps from the door to the whiteboard)
• don't be a martyr...sorry if this sounds like victim blaming but just say no I can't do that dofe weekend etc.
• if you hate it, change school

You might find it doesn't suit you. But I have experience of doing a nursing degree with small DC. Lectures 9-4 5 days a week initially - more self study as course went on. Placements doing 12 hour shifts and nights all the while having to study for exams and complete assignments. It was incredibly tough. But lots of parents did it.

Have you got any support atall with your DC - partner etc?

PGCE was the hardest thing I ever did. It's all consuming and exhausting. What stuck out for me in your post was "not standing" for super long hrs etc. Unfortunately you have to do that at least initially (as in the first few years) to get everything done- the planning, the prep, the marking, the NQT stuff, the set up, the wider activities. You do it because your deadlines are short and it's the only way to stay on track - or you're not prepared in class.

I don't teach now- I didn't love it enough and that's not fair on pupils, schools or me. I also trained at age 22-23 with no serious commitments around the job/training and - in theory at least- tonnes of energy. The reflective practice workload on top of my actual workload also really soured it for me tbh. I could've had so much more sleep & focus without those essays! I probably would've given it a better shot. It was honestly the loneliest, most difficult time of my life.

I'm honestly not sure your approach to it will work, even if you find a scheme that fits your needs. But good luck!

I am training as a teacher and I have no fees to pay.

I am training as a teacher within my current full time role and I do not do any work in my own time

When I complete my apprenticeship I will move towards completing my QTLS and therefore be a qualified teacher.

Everyone here is talking about a traditional route but that is not the only way. If you are unsure you should speak to a qualified careers adviser, you can do this free too by looking up the National Careers Service.

Well I've been retired for 7 years so I'll take your word for it. Before I retired the new Head Teacher wanted me to mark Reception work in the same way as Year 6 which was ridiculous but being asked to do ridiculous things by the HT is not unusual unfortunately. Knowing the eyfs is one thing but HTs can demand something else entirely - and standing up for myself was one reason I was bullied out and retired earlier than planned.

When you say alongside your full time role what do you mean? What is this?
No work in your own time? How many lessons a week are you actually teaching?
Move towards QTLS? This is where the evidence based training is and this is where the hard work is

Re: the pp mentioning QTLS - this is an FE qualification. It has been possible for holders of QTLS to work in schools since 2012 but QTS remains the preference in my experience.

Im not sure what you want from this thread, OP. The logistical challenges of training are very similar to those of the job.

You would need earlier childcare. 8am is too late. 7.30 starts are available; I use a childminder and I have friends who successfully lobbied their children’s breakfast clubs to start earlier.

I think you’ll find that if you train with a SCITT you will barely need to attend the university in person, if at all. Professional studies are delivered via the lead school.

On finances, a trainee who begins in Sep 2022 will be in the first cohort of ECTs to be paid the new £30k salary (based on current plans at least). Nevertheless if you need to have the appeal of the job explained to you then you should probably look elsewhere.

But the system is the system. Much as we would like it to be different, it isn’t and every state school teacher has to work with that. I’ve never worked in the independent sector, so it may well be very different, but I know someone who does and her workload is immense. She doesn’t have children, so that particular stress is removed.

My working hours in school were 7.15 to 5.00, unless there were meetings. The school shut at 6, except for parent evenings etc. The rest of the day’s work was done at home. It’s really not a family friendly career and has become less so over the years.