To think Amber Heard becoming a scapegoat for female violence proves that it isn’t really a societal issue?

[spicyicechilli]

MRA’s and men in general are obsessed with her. How exciting, to have a woman in the public figure as the bad guy. They are having an absolute field day. I’ve literally not seen one man take the opportunity share support and resources for male domestic violence victims. It’s all just “Amber Heard is a horrible fucking witch.”, bla bla bla. Men generally (yes I know there are exceptions and charities) don’t really care about male DV victims, male sexual assault victims or male mental health. In the case of male domestic violence, it’s a case of “Women do it too, this is feminism’s fault!”. Male sexual assault “Women rape too!” (Even though the vast majority of male sexual assault victims are assaulted by other males), male mental health where they state how damaging it is to be told to “man up”, but is it women telling them this? No. Men bottle up their mental health generally because they don’t want their mates to laugh at them, they don’t want to be seen as unmanly. I’ve seen it time again with male family members and exes.

Men just are not systematically victimised by women like how women are by men. MRA’s will break their back trying to show you that they are but they aren’t. They just aren’t. There are lone cases but it’s not a systematic thing. Me and all of my friends have experienced some kind of abuse at the hands of a man before, whether it be in relationships or on nights out. I just don’t think men have that same universal experience.

I was speaking to my partner about it and I said to him “The fact that people have become obsessed with Amber Heard says it all, she is a novelty. I could literally name you dozens of women I know personally who have experienced abuse at male hands, I don’t need a celebrity scapegoat to use as an example to prove that male violence exists.” As it stands now, when people think of female violence, they think of Amber Heard. When I think of male violence, I don’t just think of one man, and I certainly don’t think of a celebrity. Because I’ve experienced it so many times and know so many women who’ve also experienced it, male violence doesn’t just have one ‘face’ to me.

MRA’s have become obsessed with Amber Heard because they need a highly publicised celebrity scapegoat, because the statistics are just not on their side and don’t support their agenda.

What was damaging was allowing her to piggy back on the MeToo movement for DV when in reality it was seemingly her beating the shit out of her spouse and being abusive.

@Supersimkin2

Depp has been arrested/accused of violent behaviour in the past.

1984 - arrested for assaulting a hotel security guard

1994 - allegedly attacked a man who picked up his drink

and then shortly afterwards trashed a hotel room police suspected he was fighting with Kate Moss. He was charged for criminal damage.

1999 - attacked paparazzi with a plank of wood

Now transpose those incidents and what if it was Heard who had committed them? Would they be ‘overlooked’ or would they be very much brought to the forefront as proof of her mental instability? Is that fair?

And Jennifer Grey is saying he was crazy, jealous, paranoid and regularly getting into fights in bars. Again this is conjecture.

@Supersimkin2

She also called him funny, quirky and sweet.

and that their relationship was a soft landing

people.com/movies/jennifer-grey-says-ex-johnny-depp-amber-heard-court-battle-breaks-my-heart/

It WAS proven that she lied in the UK court. This emerged, with extensive documentation and interviews with ACLU, in the US trial. So you would “rather just go on what has been decided by a court” (in the UK), even though you now know that Amber lied about at least one (not insignificant) thing that would have swayed opinion in her favour? That doesn’t make sense to me. She perjured herself. The UK judgement was based on the presupposition that she was telling the truth about everything she said under testimony, and we now know at least some of it was a lie.

She’s a liar, and her lies have hurt DV victims. This is the part that makes so angry, as the sister of someone who suffered DV for many years. Ordinary people don’t get voices, but AH, who really could be a voice for the good in this issue, lies in a way that diminishes the cause and reduces the ability of the “little people” to have a voice.

Whilst I agree with the majority of the OPs thoughts, it must be said that there are HUGE numbers of women who psychologically abuse male partners. But as it isn't a physical attack and there are no physical marks it gets dismissed. I think that more women do coercive control than we would care to admit. For example, threatening to harm themselves if the partner leaves or to take legal action to stop the man seeing the kids. Or saying "if you don't to X then I will accuse you of Y and your reputation will be ruined". These things happen ALOT, I speak to men most days who report some type of behaviour or another similar to this.

I hadn't thought about this, I do have a family member who was physically abused by his wife but I hadn't thought of the other things, you are right and I do know women who have done all the other things you list.

But on the whole she spoke positively about him and she did not ever say he was violent towards her. She said her relationship with Johnny “saved me”:

"I was in desperate need of rebounding into something that looked and felt like 1989 Johnny Depp…Trust me, it was a very soft landing. It was necessary. I was bleeding out inside and this guy saved me and just made me ... not feel what I was feeling."

I don’t think that her saying he was moody, jealous, etc undermines the general positive opinion of him and their relationship that she expresses. Every person describing a relationship with an ex is going to mention some of their negative qualities, but not everybody is going to be able to say the positive things she concludes about her time with him. And this is consistent with what his other exes have said: none of them accuse him of violence and each speaks positively about him, even Vanessa P., who in my opinion is the one with the most right to be bitter.

I do think it is rare that multiple exes conclude that a long-finished relationship was positive on the whole. If Vanessa, Winona, Jennifer, etc had an ax to grind, this would be the time. If any of them had experienced violence at his hands, why would they hide it in favour of praising him now?

That is the main issue isn't it. This isn't something that should be settled in court. The lawyers who are cashing in on this should be ashamed.

Absolutely agree

its always down to women to compromise

It’s always asked why didn’t she walk away not why did he do it

men can set up their own dv support network but they would rather just blame women for not supporting them

the obsessive abuse of AH is shocking. Even on here a woman’s site the obsessive nature of watching her every single move, her every reaction is scrutinised and pulled apart where as there is little mention of JD over the top testimony, his laughing (apparently through nerves, like to see her get away with that) and turning up to court with War by Bob Marley blaring from the car is disrespectful towards court proceedings he is a man nearing 60 not a rebellious teenager.

JD’s pr has absolutely sucked people in but then he is worth a lot of money to a lot of people

I have never seen such vitriol thrown at a man on MN and that is shocking in itself given how much male violence there is towards women and children

None of those things are documented violence to a partner, though.

As for your reference to the fight with Kate Moss, Kate Moss spoke in support of Johnny.

Furthermore, did you see Johnny’s lawyer theatrically punch the air, grinning, as soon as Amber mentioned that she had “heard” he had attacked Kate Moss? (You can find his reaction on YouTube). Kate Moss was not permitted to be added to the witness list for the US trial before, but that could change now that Amber brought her name into it, and Johnny’s lawyers clearly know Kate Moss is going to continue to support him.

I support Kate James. I think people like her need to be protected, and they deserve a voice. Kate James is not a celebrity, and she was never going to have a wide audience or support after her gang rape in Brazil. She confided that story to Amber, and Amber then retold the story, making it about herself and removing Kate entirely.

And I don’t think supporting Amber just because she is a woman is the right thing to do. She has lied in ways that are harmful to all women. She perjured herself in the UK court. She lied about giving her divorce settlement to a children’s hospital. She lied about writing the op-ed, concealing the fact that an organisation who bestowed a title on her from which she would benefit publicly/career-wise had actually written the article. Etc. Supporting her at this point only because she is female is, I think, a grave injustice to the many other women who are DV victims.

I 1000% agree

And his actions ??

@blackcatnight

It is interesting to hear your view, because I have formed mine only on what I’ve read so it’s good to hear the other side/what you’ve read in depth.

Ok - so yes I do believe she has lied, embellished the truth or given contradicting versions. But equally I think Depp has probably lied/embellished the truth/skewed versions of events to his favour.

As the US trial hasn’t reached a formal conclusion - is it possible to say there is ‘proof’ without hearing the whole trial?

Your right it seems to be mainly women supporting JD. It's like watching a bad courtroom drama. She wouldn't win an Oscar for her performances in court put it that way. You can tell she's trying to remember what she said in her book taking her time to get the words out. That's because it's harder to remember exactly what they said when it didn't happen. It's like she's stolen parts of movies with domestic abuse in and made it her own. Did she not go to hospital after being assaulted with a bottle and it smashed inside her? If he was guilty he wouldn't be going through this trial. I just can't wait for the whole farce to be over.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Johnny Depp must be dreadful to live with. It’s hard to imagine someone who massively abuses alcohol and drugs as anything other than unpleasant to live with, tbh. I don’t believe she went into that relationship in innocence of all that, though (what rock would you have to live under not to be aware of his proclivities), or as a stable, loving, well adjusted person herself who never deliberately hurt, abused or upset him. I get the impression they were both absolutely vile to each other. She does come across worse, though, because she sought to capitalise on it by painting herself as a victim of men like Johnny Depp, making obvious she actually meant Johnny Depp, when in reality, they are both victims of each other. Their problems clearly started long before they met each other.

Not all victims of domestic violence are women, but the vast majority are. I have sometimes said usually or mostly women when referring to domestic violence.

I think that this does seem a case of two wrongs not making a right, and it will be used to diminish the seriousness and scale of domestic violence in general. In a way it reminds me of people who seek to diminish racism because a small proportion of racists are people of colour.

No, the evidence/proof of both her lies about the donation AND the fact that ACLU (who gave her the women’s rights ambassador position) was clearly established in released emails between ACLU’s writer and Amber’s lawyers, plus extensive questioning/testimony from an ACLU rep. Whether or not that evidence will have substantial weight in any outcome of this crazy show remains to be seen. But it was proven that she lied about the donation, and having followed the UK trial quite carefully, this mean as she perjured herself during the UK trial when she lied in court. I do think this is going to be a facet of Depp’s defence because it isn’t as if she hired any old ghost writer to produce the op-ed: no, it was the organisation that gave her a position beneficial to her image and therefore profession who wrote her article for her.

Look, I’m not saying Depp is innocent. Whether or not he physically harmed her, he did abuse her, according to his own understanding of “abuse.” He was asked during cross in the US trial if it his mother’s treatment of him could be considered “abuse”, and he said yes. This formed the thrust of Amber’s lawyer’s argument to have the case stricken down, and from a rhetorical standpoint, I think their argument was valid. However, the judge didn’t agree, so there is clearly more to consider, and we’ll see how Depp’s legal team handles this.

But the case is about defamation, and Amber’s documented lies/perjury do not establish her as a credible person. Furthermore, as I mentioned, I do think the perjury in the UK trial + the fact that the specific organisation who wrote her op-ed for her also gave her the beneficial position is going to play a part in Depp’s legal defence. We’ll see if that actually happens when she’s in cross a week from now.

I will say that I found it somewhat extraordinary that Depp’s team allowed Heard to speak so freely without objection, but now I think this is because they are allowing her to provide the proverbial rope to hang herself. Depp’s lawyer did gleefully punch the air when Heard rambled her way into mentioning Kate Moss, and I think Amber did a lot more damage to her case overall during her rants last week than her supporters can know. Her lawyers should have coached her not to mention Moss. I also noticed that her timeline of events is disjointed and a confused, such as: the assault she described on Thursday, in which he was manhandling and punching her, allegedly happened while Depp was suffering MERSA, so using that hand would have been difficult to do what she described would have been difficult, if not impossible then. Unlike Amber, Depp went to the hospital for his injuries, so the re-attached finger + MERSA are clearly documented.

Cross will be fun to watch!

My own opinion is that it was clearly about JD. Everyone knew what and who she was referring to, even if it didn't mention him by name. And the testimony confirms that it was about JD.

I also think that she owned the article by having her name credited as the writer and by sharing it online saying "look what I wrote" (even though that was another lie and someone else in fact wrote it ).

And that if it was all indeed bollocks, she has defamed him by putting her name to an article that referred to violence that never happened and by owning the headline (inadvertently or otherwise) that claimed it included sexual violence.

The evidence presented by JD has met the legal threshold for defamation. But first the jury has to decide if the claims of violence referred to in the article and the headline are true or not. Obviously if the jury decides they aren't true and that the article clearly refers to JD and has damaged his reputation and earning potential, the article is defamatory.

To think Amber Heard becoming a scapegoat for female violence proves that it isn’t really a societal issue?

I don’t agree AH is a scapegoat. A scapegoat is an innocent person that is blamed for something they did not do, but another person has done. It’s more that she’s being made the poster child for female violence like Ted Bundy was the poster child for serial killers.

I also don’t think it proves it isn’t really a societal issue. Murders are quite rare occurrences, serial killers even rarer, but we can’t say that they are not societal issues at all can we? So whether female violence is ultra rare or common or somewhere inbetween, it doesn’t matter, it is still a societal issue as it is a type of human violence that does exist as do the victims. Of course, the majority of the victims of female violence are children, not men. So I also reject your limiting the concept of female violence to encompass only adult female on adult male violence.

Men don't tend to report domestic violence. I know someone who was a victim of spousal abuse and never reported it. His reasoning was if she claimed he hit her (or other stuff) then it'd be him in trouble. Plus there's a lot of shame involved for men who are victims of DV and men who are in abuse relationships can be gaslit a lot (as women are).

I don’t think it is correct to say that he “admitted to head butting her” because he testified that he did it accidentally while she was “flailing and punching” him.

Also, she claimed her nose was broken by the alleged on-purpose head-butting, but she—an actor whose career depends in part on her face—never sought medical treatment for a broken nose? Does it really ring true that an actor would just decide not to see a doctor about what she believed to be a broken nose?

I know two women who had broken noses, and each had some degree of permanent change to their nose structure after this. I just don’t believe Amber’s nose was broken but she decided never to see a doctor or plastic surgeon about it, not after it happened and not after it healed.

I think it might also be because now she has spoken about one of his exs, they can do the same. Which means her arrest against Tasya can be bought into evidence. I hope so anyway.

@blackcatnight

Ok so Ellen Barkin has accused him of being violent.

And I’ve just read an article featuring 80 times Johnny has lied under oath. I can copy and paste if you like?

The UK appeal was rejected because the court deemed he’d admitted to head butting her.

I don’t want to come across necessarily as defending Heard. It’s more that I think there are instances where they are both lying.

And also that it may not be the case that he hasn’t been violent in the past.

Again conjecture, I have no idea on the credibility of this source, but here you go:

thegeekbuzz.com/news/83-times-johnny-depp-lied-under-cross-examination-so-far/