To ask how long you think food banks should support people for?

[tartanbaker]

I help to run an independent food bank, & we currently support over 100 families. We are nearing our capacity (in terms of numbers we can help) due to limited storage etc, but there are new people applying all the time. We give people food every week, and some families have been registered with us for about 2 years now. They are still needy, and we all know that things are going to continue being tough for the foreseeable future, so my question is…if you were to donate to a food bank, how would you want them to use your food/money? Continuing to help everyone for as long as they ask for help, even though it might mean turning others away? Or telling existing families who rely on you that you can’t help them any more because you are going to help new people now? It’s so hard, and an ongoing debate we are having, and I’d be really interested to hear other people’s opinions. Both options seem really tough….

I used to work as a benefits advisor and often made food bank referrals.
Generally for people who's benefits had completely stopped and had no income at all.
It used to really annoy me when food banks had a limit of, say, three food parcels a year. That equates to 9 days food. With the best will in the world it takes more than 9 days to sort out a benefits issue.
The longest cases were always people with immigration difficulties. It can take an immigration solicitor years to regularise someone's immigration status and its common for them to be completely destitute for that entire time. Children included. In those circumstances I would make repeated referrals over long periods.
I don't think you can have a hard and fast cut off point as every case is different.
If I was running a food bank I would want to know, however, that someone was working with the client to resolve the problem in the longer term. That could be the referring agency or someone connected with the foodbank.
Now it may be that the situation is intractable. Maybe the cost of rent and utilities is so high that there's no extra income for food even with benefits maximised and debt counselling etc. That's starting to happen more and more.
I would still want to know that the client had had the benefit check and the debt counselling to make absolutely sure that long term food bank se was the only availible option.

The suggestion for PP to give everyone less food reminds me of an article in Al Jazeera about how the UN was giving less food to people in Syria, so they were going from basic rations to starvation rations. Obv. not the same situation here, but if someone is coming to you for two years, I would think something has gone really wrong for them.

I agree with @NumberTheory

Two alternative approaches, both equally valid. Probably best to pick one approach and stick with it

For OP, I'd suggest that if you do change your system, you give all existing clients reasonable notice that everyone will have to be re-referred and then go on to the new system. There will be backlash, I guess. Understandable if people have come to rely on the service and are desperate

Another option would be just to change the offering for new clients, so existing clients get support as long as they need it, but new clients get a more limited service

I'm sure I'll be shouted down but if you need to be given food, you shouldn't be smoking (about £11 quid a packet these days), or have an expensive phone or own a car

You have some learning to do. People ‘fall on hard times’ in a heartbeat. A car accident, serious illness, marriage breakdown…all happens overnight. You don’t get out of a phone contract or car leasing just because things have changed. Nor does a nicotine addiction just stop because you can no longer afford it, I went benefits for a couple of years after experiencing a number of major life events in a short space of time - I maintained a car throughout (or rather my mum did for me). Not having a car would have meant that getting three children to three different schools/nurseries and then myself to work once I was able to work again would have just been too difficult a barrier to breakdown.. You need internet access to be able to claim benefits these days - so if you can’t afford broadband, the phone is your only option. The cheapest phones are not smart phones, are they?

if you are going to work in a food bank, the least you can do is think outside the box a bit. Life isn’t as black and white as you are pretending it is.

Woud it be possible to run a subscription based community larder alongside the food bank? Provide the standard subsistance parcels to start along with the advice then move them on to so many items for £2.50/£3. Membership of the community larder is available to all the community with people choosing to shop and have the opportunity to donate the normal price for the good they buy.

Here in a village with just a Co-op there are Fareshare goods, donations of food and M&S end of line/bashed plus occasional veg and yesterdays in store bakery items plus bought protein staples and things like pudding rice/gluten free goods that can not be bought locally. Membership is £5/year paid in one over over the year plus £2.50 for 10 items. As there is a fair amount of yesterdays bread and just past date bunches of flowers the walkers and coffee morning attendees pay most of the original value which subsidises the free parcels.

It can be difficult to manage some unfamiliar donations from Fareshare so using recipes and bundles of ingredients can help.

I'm sure I'll be shouted down but if you need to be given food, you shouldn't be smoking (about £11 quid a packet these days), or have an expensive phone or own a car or have money to go to Costa

People own the car (to get to work probably!) And the phone before they fall on the hard times though. Yes I get that when their phone contract comes up for renewal they should downgrade. And as for smoking, I get the principle but during a crisis where you are struggling to make ends meet I imagine it's pretty stressful so not the best time to go cold turkey.

@LuluBlakey1 cars are often essential for people to get to work or to the food banks

tho agree about smoking , Costa and high number iPhones which are large and have lots of cameras on the back - which are hugely costly per month - def not a £5/10 monthly cost

nothing wrong with a small iphone like a 6/7 - those on uc for example have to log in and do stuff online so an internet phone is needed

but I get the point you are making

Wonder If any of the people who go to food banks know if the app olio where they can get free food locally

We need an absolute overhaul of the way we are functioning. We need to teach better budgeting, cooking and financial planning

We have a food bank that does just this, using volunteers from the local community. Some of our cafe owners have hosted cooking classes for parent and child, to support families to break the cycle.
An off shoot of the food bank provides, once a week, raw ingredients and a recipe. Families are expected to cook together, children to learn.
This is educating and giving pride and respect.

If I could, I would provide an allotment as part of a food bank too, where those who use the service can also learn together, work together and benefit from all of the MH improvements that, that would bring, as well as providing food for the food bank community.
This isn’t just about lack of money, this is about lack of education and lack of expectation. The education system is not meeting need if families are unable to cook or do not understand how to eat healthily.

A very sad state our country is in, thanks Tory government. ☹️

@Theytrytomakmego I am also so sorry for your situation. OP, I voted YANBU but not with the intention that people acclimatise to not getting enough calories. A provision for re-referral is really important.

Maybe after a certain amount of time people should have a review. Someone from a financial charity come in and help them. If they are waiting a long time for benefits helping them to contact the local MP. Get other charities/agencies involved.

Is there a way to liaise with other agencies to check that people are genuine. I’ve heard from a friend that some people aren’t as genuine as they seem and they often throw the food away as they get things they don’t like.

Can you also do subsidised bags. A few pounds for a bag/box full for those who aren’t quite in need. To help keep the money turning over.

Ongoing food bank use makes sense for the Ill/disabled

Wow I cannot believe somebody actually said this.
No. Ongoing food bank use does not 'make sense' for the ill and disabled. What makes sense is disabled people actually getting enough money to have dignity and be able to choose their own food.

Some of the attitudes on this thread are quite frankly fucking disgusting and to be honest, frightening that some 'alright jacks' think this way.

Disability benefits have been cut and people are denied time and time again. The UN calls the UK's attitude the disabled people a 'hostile environment'.

From somebody who lived in extreme poverty under the last one: it wasn't.

No. Ongoing food bank use does not 'make sense' for the ill and disabled. What makes sense is disabled people actually getting enough money to have dignity and be able to choose their own food

I realise that it's convenient to alert people to period poverty, digital poverty, rural poverty, fuel poverty as an educational tool but as the PP indicates, at its heart, it's plain old, quality-of -life-destroying poverty.

Money is a major part of the solution and control over how that money is spent.

Many years ago I used a charity to get help with childcare/travel money and books for college.

Part of the process was that we had to show what benefits we were on and what our out goings were. I've no idea if this would be too invasive these days but it seemed to work for them. You could then be making sure they are getting all the benefits they are entitled too and suggest some money saving tips.

What a dilemma!

As harsh as this will sound, I think that if the issues are caused bysigarettes, drug and alcohol dependency and they've been receiving support for 2 years, that then saying there's a time limit is appropriate. They've not sought support to improve their situation and in effect you're now their crutch allowing their habits to remain, so giving a notice period is "fair", allowing those whose situations have led them to be on the waiting list to now have a chance of support when they need it.

You're doing a wonderful thing, but so many more also need that support.

@tartanbaker
I presume that you're already checking their eligibility and that they're receiving all entitled to benefits wise given one of your trustees is a benefits guru?

Would referral by a third party be a possibility or does that go against the principles of the organisation? Personally, if I was ever in need, I'd want to self refer, the fewer people aware the better would be my own take, so I understand this may be an ethical dilemma as well.

Regular/continued use of foodbanks develops dependance - with the cost of living crisis many people who would have deemed themselves as managing will then find they need to adjust their spending. Foodbanks should be temporary and for emergencies - of course they are charities and how a charity chooses to operate is there choice. However, I have seen people using foodbanks who have not curtailed thier spending and who use them regularly - this will in my view reduce donations.

Foodbanks do not have an unlimited supply of food and will probably have to think more about allocating their supplies as the demand increases and supply of goods decreases.

The place I rented as a vulnerable teenager had no oven or heating. That was under the last Labour Government that everybody seems to think was amazing. It wasn't, it was just as shit as this one, for the groups of people they didn't consider worthy of food or warmth or shelter.

I thought food banks were meant to be for emergency and temporary situations, not a long term thing. I'd prefer it if the food bank I give to would help everyone, but give everyone a bit less, especially as they are likely to get decreased donations now.

As far as the dilemma in the OP, I have no idea, as others have said, both options are just shit.

As far as dependency/reliance is concerned, I think the only people that has happened with are the government. They have relied on the existence of for banks etc not not have to put proper measures in place to ensure that people aren't so short on cash that they can't even feed themselves adequately. The should never have been needed in this country, it's an embarrassment.

Also, I don't think the term "lifestyle choice" belongs anywhere near this conversation

No wonder you've got people on the list for two years, why on earth would they give up free food they've chosen?! Think you've definitely created a dependency and now more needy families are missing out

I think your dilemma will only become worse until the benefits system is completely overhauled. This is not a popular opinion but there are many people receiving benefits that should not be, which means that those in real need do not receive enough money to live on or feed themselves. Lower the threshold for child benefit again, and properly assess people before pulling them into the benefit system where they will probably remain long term. Give proper training, support and motivation for people to find work. Provide more free child care. I have so many friends that receive benefits and it is not an easy life but it is a familiar way of life for them as their parents and their parents before them were in the benefit system.

People can self-refer or be referred by official agencies

That's probably a major part of your problem right there - the one I help at had to stop this because of the colossal abuse, both of the system and the staff, by some who turned out not to actually need it at all

I expect we can all agree that food banks shouldn't be necessary at all, and in an ideal world it would be great to trust self referrals. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world so it might be something you could look at for the sake of the genuinely needy people to come