AIBU to refuse to pay cash

[cashorbanktransfer]

We have just had some decorating done. Used what appeared to be a small but reputable company. All prices/spec agreed by text.

Work is completed (fine) and now we have been asked to pay cash (several thousand pounds). We refused as the prices were not agreed for this and we have continually asked for bank details so we can pay in full.

Have now been told there is high rate interest added if work is not paid cash within one day of completion as per terms and conditions. We were obviously not told this in advance! I never asked to see terms and conditions as expected to pay in full on completion.

Can a business legally require cash without agreement in advance. Surely the only reason for cash is to avoid vat or ni or tax or something - or would there be any other reason?

Thank you

Good that you've pointed this particular gem out. Imagine the courts not being aware that consideration is the contractual requirement and not bearer bonds or promises to pay on delivery...this is getting quite strange now.

Some very varied replies!! Incredible to focus on my paying thousands for decorating "one room" when I had made no mention if it was interior/exterior or if it was whole house or a rental etc!

We are paying in cash as feel intimidated not to do so. Tried 3 cash point machines tonight to try to get another £500 (driving all over) to manage to just get £250. Looks like I will be taking time off work on Monday to get to a bank as it is proving so hard to get the cash. I cant believe the time I have wasted chasing round for cash last couple of evenings.

I have to accept we will not have any invoice, receipt or proof other than our text exchanges. Upsetting as the work was fine and company seemed genuine.

No one would take anyone to court for not being able to get cash within one day of the work when they had not given advance notice and had no invoice or receipt and where they had been offered immediate bank transfer. In fact no one should be paying if they are refused an invoice or receipt. No idea how anyone thinks they could take us to court and win in this situation when we want to transfer the money!

However as stated we are paying cash but that is not due to fear of being taken to court but more for fear of other reprisals as they know where we live and lots about our lives having worked at our home.

Don't give any money without getting a receipt!!. Why would you accept that?

If nothing else @cashorbanktransfer you have learnt the usefulness of having more than one bank account. I have two bank accounts and two building society accounts, mainly to be able to lay my hands on cash quickly if required.

I work for a small business. We dont have a card reader but our preferred payment is bank transfer - but I would always tell a customer before we start any work how and when payment was expected. (they would also get a receipt regardless of how they pay)
Cheques are our least favourite form of payment and several of our customers still use them.

Why won't you be getting any kind of receipt? You said it's a reputable business so I assume website, online presence, known locally etc how would that be the case if they are intimidating their customers into which they are intimidating their customers into cash payments with no warning? Have they actually refused ti give you paperwork?

You absolutely should get a receipt

we had to pay for our entire extension in cash which was a massive PITB but I did most definitely get a receipt

The black economy is worth £150 billion, this money is spent, and goes to the treasury via vat and other taxes. The total GDP is 2.5 trillion, so avoidance by trades or other similar businesses is tiny in comparison.

I can't be arsed to reply to the others because the posts have either misunderstood or deliberately misinterpreted what I'm saying.
For eg:
Not wanting to go to the bank several times and withdraw thousands in cash
is not "suspicious". It would require several trips probably and there is also a risk and walkiing around with thousands. It is not a minor inconvenience.

The op and others are arguing this company must be behaving suspiciously because they have requested cash. Fgs. stop being so obtuse.
The refusal to go to the bank is obstinate in the extreme.

To the other accusatory tones, I HATE RECEIVING CASH, because I have to make an extra journey to the post office or bank.
My business sends a digital quote and a digital invoice. There is never an informal text discussing costs or payment.

You need to get an invoice for the work from them before you hand over a penny.

If they are a reputable company who just prefer to be paid in cash, they will issue an invoice without any problems.

If they refuse to hand over an invoice, then it is clear that they are insisting on cash in order to avoid declaring it as part of their turnover.

I would get advice from CAB or Trading Standards before handing over money with no invoice.

If they are intimidating you then call the police. A reputable firm would not be harassing you for cash, refusing to hand over paperwork and intimidating you.

You are within your rights to refuse to pay them until they issue an invoice, please do not hand over any money until they give you an invoice and also they need to write on it "received in cash", or you have no proof that you have given them the money.

@Hrpuffnstuff1

The black economy is worth £150 billion, this money is spent, and goes to the treasury via vat and other taxes. The total GDP is 2.5 trillion, so avoidance by trades or other similar businesses is tiny in comparison.

The black economy is indeed huge, but it's also the largest component of the official "tax gap", i.e. due to VAT not being paid, staff being paid in cash thus avoiding tax/NIC (and fuelling benefit fraud), no excise duty on duty free cigs & booze, etc etc. It's tax negative, not tax generating - that's the thing about the black economy, the tax doesn't get paid!

I don't think they are being unreasonable saying their preferred payment method is cash, but I think its unreasonable sayimg they only accept cash, especially if they hadn't made that clear at the start, and that its a large amount.

I have sometimes had to take large amounts of cash to the bank for work, and I absolutely hate carrying it. Now so many banks are closed or have very restricted opening hours it is much harder to access cash, and I would always rather pay someone, or they pay, by bank transfer.
It also is clear that the correct amount has been paid and no one is claiming that its £20 short or miscounted. Im pretty sure there are no additional charges for uk bank transfers but businesses can be charged for large payments in cash.

Apparently you can order (via a banking app) up to £1k to be dispensed from a cash point, but I really wouldn't want to take that much money out in view of anyone walking past.

The op and others are arguing this company must be behaving suspiciously because they have requested cash. Fgs. stop being so obtuse.
The refusal to go to the bank is obstinate in the extreme.

It really isn't!! obstante!!!! Maybe it's because I am disabled but it would be a serious effort to have to keep going to and from a cashpoint to collects thousands or to take time off work to go to a bank which is several miles away. It also could be quite dangerous where I live. Not everyone has a car and going on transport or walking with thousands where I live would also be quite dangerous if you had thousands. Now that bank transfers can be done quickly there is no reason for a business to insist on it, and it is suspicious if they do..

I wont be getting a second bank account so I can withdraw cash more easily! In future I will ensure I have quote in writing stating that payment is by BACs!! I didnt say the company was reputable, I said they appeared to be. I wont have any proof that I have paid if they wont give a receipt and I have totally lost trust due to the intimidation. Really dont want it to get nasty.

dianthus - totally agree. It is really annoying trying to get the cash. If I had known 2 weeks in advance for example I could have got cash in small amounts when out and about but now it feels very stressful and time consuming trying to avoid taking time off work tomorrow to get to a bank. I think I am going to end up having to do that anyway and lose wages. Maybe some people live in a city and getting cash is easy but it is certainly not the case for everyone especially if rural, non driver, disabled etc.

The people who think you are just being obstinate are living in their own little world. Just because it would be no big deal for them doesn't mean it's only a minor inconvenience for everyone else. If someone said in advance that they wanted thousands and cash on completion of the job I would use a different trader. It's outrageous that they have insisted on this afterwards.

Who cares what your circumstances are.
You're just making stuff up

Emotional appeals don't work in court nor do the work in general business dealings.
Honestly 3 customers a week in court, won every time, heard all kinds of sob stories.
We've even had people pay in assets, there's 2 Bentley's in the lock up after people decided they'd run out of cash...

Hrpuffnstuff1 - not sure i understand your argument. Are you saying if the company took me to court for not having several thousand pounds in cash readily available without invoice or without specifying cash up front they can decline immediate bank transfer and win the case??

Surely they could just go to the bank and withdraw all the money from my bank transfer then they would have cash if they need cash as it is an instant transfer.

This doesn't make any sense. What kind of business is in court 3 times per week? And thats impossible anyway now, because you would be penalised for not using mediation first.

There must be something seriously wrong with your terms and conditions, stage payments or workmanship to have to take so many customers to court for non-payment. If you're not talking about the dim and distant past, you seriously need to review your business model and write stage payments into your contracts. Every other large well organised business does it. Why don't you?

Plus, if you were winning these cases (presumably small claims otherwise you'd be boasting about getting the fees awarded in your favour as well) its only because the correct procedure for shoddy workmanship is to pay up then sue the builder for breach of contract. But since that isn't the case here - the consumer is attempting to pay and the contractor is refusing payment - why would you think this is relevant? Do you understand the difference? You have had it pointed out to you repeatedly that no court is going to take this as a refusal to pay, in these circumstances, without a formal written invoice.

Everyone else can see the difference, so don't embarrass yourself like this.

All this boasting about how much money you make, how successful you are in court, how people apparently pay you in Bentleys - are you just trying to influence a criminal practice of tax avoidance by trying to normalise it on a forum?

A company that processes 500 'Small' works per week maybe.😂😂
You quite clearly no nothing about the construction industry, nor can you read, the company was a business I was employed as a manager. The owner an ex police officer knows the law quite well and relished inept customer's and his day in court.

Text messages are classed as a contract between the 2 parties.

End of.

Stop thinking the trades are run by silly little men who turnover 10p and don't have a clue.
You're wrong.

I also don't understand. If you weren't given terms and conditions in the first place or an invoice stating payment terms, how would you guess that cash is their only option of payment. You haven't refused to pay if youve repeatedly asked for bank details.

Lots of people wouldn't want thousands of pounds in cash sitting about at home "just in case" a builder/decorator only accepted cash, but bank opening times are not usually compatible with working ft, so it is more difficult to get cash in large amounts. I wfh 1 day a week, I thought I would go to the bank then, but the bank in our town is only open 3 or 4 days a week and closes early even (I think 2pm) on the days it is open.

And your small works construction business needs to be run so as to save money by not constantly being in and out of court. Can you not run it more efficiently or something? Or are you too busy insulting people? Sounds like a bunch of wide boys (and girls). We really need to crack down on businesses like yours in this country and properly regulate them, like they do in France and Germany. Requiring licenses which can be revoked if you intimidate customers or try to avoid tax would be a good start.

And yet again, although its been pointed out to you many, many times, if you conduct a business through text, no-one knows exactly what the terms are. Thats why well run businesses use proper written quotes on headed notepaper and proper invoices with their payment terms.

I hope your business is dirt cheap because I can't see the point in anyone using it otherwise. Even if people agree to paying cash and texting, they still expect a reasonable job to be done, which is why you probably find yourself in court 3 times a week.

I wouldn't be making an "emotional appeal" in court. I would just demonstrate that I had tried to pay but the payment had been refused. Don't be ridiculous.

For those who give quotes/invoices via text, how do you go about providing customers with your T&Cs? They're not valid if the customer hasn't seen and agreed to them!

I asked several days ago why a reputable company would need to be paid in cash. Not the OP specifically, but the companies employed by the many posters on here who have paid cash with no concerns.

Still waiting for a relevant answer.