Bringing up child manipulation with ex

[boymum9]

I've had a long difficult journey with my ex h during our split about 3.5 years ago, a lot of which is documented on here (I did change username but have temporarily put it back to get advice on this issue so people can look back if wanted!)

He was/is emotionally manipulative and just an all round difficult person, things are better after all this time but now things are coming out in other days.

2 dcs 7 and 4. The 4 year old never seems to want to go to his house, but is fine when there, they both do have a good fun relationship with their dad but he also doesn't actually take on hardly any actual parental responsibility (including things like getting them to brush their teeth). He gets upset to leave home and upset again when I leave to drop him.

Yesterday he made a point after saying he didn't want to leave of telling me "don't tell daddy though! He'll be sad and upset". Multiple times I've had from both of them "daddy was sad about this/angry about this" These are not things that the dc have done that are naughty, these are purely things like being upset to leave me for the night, expressing that they like my partner (who I've now been with for nearly 3 years and really has very little involvement still in their lives).

When I dropped them off at his yesterday and youngest was upset, I could overhear the 7 year old saying to their dad "don't worry daddy, when we're at home he does actually want to come and is excited don't be sad!". Firstly generally not true, he never really wants to go, but like I said is happy once there and settled, but what shocked me about this is that my 7 year old had was so concerned about his dad that he had to make things up to save his feelings. I often hear their dad say things like "well daddy's just going to go home and cry then" "you're making daddy sad" "I guess you can just stay here and we'll go have fun without you then" when youngest is upset.

I want to speak to him about this this morning but I also need to know I'm right in being concerned about this emotional manipulation, whenever I have conversations with him he always turns it around onto me and manipulates me, over the years I have been stronger and am better but I still get sick thinking about having to do it. Aibu to be so upset about this?

Are you kidding? Adults shouldn't burden children with their emotions, however they feel. But this is more than that.

If you had been in this situation and had your DC stressed and confused because they are worried about how a parent will react, meaning instead of feeling free to make their own decisions they spend their time trying to appease that parent, you would see how painful it is for them. Try having some empathy with them rather than an adult who knows perfectly well it's emotional blackmail.

Hello OP's ex

Parents can and do have feelings but it's widely inappropriate to share all of your feelings with your children.

When adults divorce they have to suck up a lot of stuff because they want their children to settle sooner and not worry about stuff that kids shouldn't be worrying about.

Regardless of divorce it's not unusual for kids to be unhappy at the thought of going somewhere but being ok once they get there. It's not because they want to upset the adults at the destination or the adult taking them - kids sometimes have big emotions and need to go through the process of dealing with them. That's just standard growing up and maturing. The younger child is in the process of learning something that he finds difficult (change of house) and needs time and understanding not guilt.

Children who focus too much on other people's feelings risk ending up in friendships and relationships where they work hard at making other people happy and forget that their needs matter too. You see posts from adult women here who are terrified to tel their parents or ILs what they really think because they are conditioned to worry about everybody else.

Ignore some of the posts here op. They are from people who won’t understand cover narcissism.

so I had therapy session today with Dd. If it’s any help, the advice was:

• be very honest with the kids (as you are). You are not responsible for dad’s feelings and I don’t know why he says these things to you.


• remember (this was to me) that thr kids will recognise how they feel in each place - their feelings - and react accordingly when they’re older. So if they feel relaxed and happy at yours, they will recognise that.


• empathise with them, but don’t get wrapped up in their emotions. The instinct is to protect them, which is right, but they also have to follow their own path of realising what dad is like. You can’t hide it from them (this was a mistake I made in the past).


• as they get older, (this was more for me b/c mins are teens) remember that they are strong people in their own right. The realisation re dad will come, it might be sooner or later, but will will come. Trust in them and their journey.

don’t know if any of that helps, we are at different stages, but thought I’d pass it on.

Thank you @MakingProgress2022 that was all really helpful and I hope you're making good progress with your therapy sessions and they're helping give you some peace in all this! Thank you so much for passing that all on.

I think the comment in regards to feeling sorry for him don't really understand the whole situation, he sees our children a lot of the time, every other weekend and during the week as well, he lives 1 minute away, he never goes 48 hours without seeing them, he often rushes them back to me because he wants to play golf, or I have them extra days that he was meant to because he's going on holiday all of which are his choice. Never has he been stopped from seeing them, it's purely about him emotionally blackmailing them as he did me for the last 15 years and the toll it's now taking on them!

Of course he's allowed to be sad and telling the DC he misses them is fine. What isn't ok is making them feel they have to censor their own feelings because Daddy will be sad or angry. They're little kids, they should be able to say they miss mum and conversely they miss Dad, without being told they're making the parent they're sad with a totally normal and reasonable reaction to no longer living with both parents. Being told you're upsetting your parent with completely normal emotions, like missing the other parent and struggling with the transition from one house to another, is not even close to Ok and it will harm them.

I grew up with this narrative and it made me feel like it was my job to keep everyone happy no matter the cost to myself. My mother actually left, she was the narcissist, but if I was upset about missing her my Dad took that personally, it wasn't that we didn't love him or wanted to be with our mother, but we missed her and we should have been allowed to talk about that. I love my Dad and he isn't a bad person, he went through a lot of abuse in his childhood and marriage, but he still did a lot of damage. I've spent my marriage believing in responsible for H happiness and his moods and that he's right to blame me for everything. That's not a future I want for my DC or anyone else's for that matter.

I wouldn't waste your breath raising it with him, he'll either say they need to hear about his emotions, or it's about how much he loves them. Either way, it won't make a blind bit of difference, and he is unlikely to stop.

I can see this sort of thing happening already with my 2DC's and their dad, who I left last year. Older DC said his dad had shouted at him, and said he was naughty because he said he missed me/our house when at dads house for the weekend. Instead of reassuring him and saying something like don't worry DS, we'll have a lovely time here, then you'll be back to mum's on x day, he goes off on one!

I'd focus on trying to explain that it's a good thing for your DC to have a relationship with their father, warts and all.

He can be as sad as he likes but the kids are not responsible for his feelings. If the kids don’t want to see him he should look at why and buck his ideas up rather than lolloping around telling the kids how sad he is. It’s abusive and wrong.