To ask if my knees and back will ever "get better"?

[OnceMoreWithoutFeeling]

My knees are agony. No idea why, never been injured or anything. Just increasingly frequent and unpleasant episodes of pain in one or both kneecaps, to the point I now have to lope down the stairs saying "fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck" like a foul-mouthed hunchback of Notre Dame.

My lower back is not much better. Just so painful. So much of the time.

I'm 37 with two young kids (5 and 1). So obvs have done a lot of carrying heavy weights, crawling about on knees, bending over cots in the last 5 years. Plus no sleep do just generally quite run down.

Will these aches and pains ever get better when i don't have to put so much physical pressure on my joints? Or is it all downhill from here?? 😬

I'm always amazed by people who actually get referrals from GPs. Anything I've ever been to them for (including these dodgy knees many months ago) they pretty much just shrug and tell me to live with it. Different GPs at same practice. Who are these magic GPs who actually take an interest in making you better??? 😆

Oh the PT I mentioned before was a personal trainer not a physio - I haven't seen one of them. I will now though!

Try to arrange a gait analysis. Knee pain can be a sign of needing shoe orthotics. Some podiatrists can do this for you. Also look up overpronation.

That's just not true. Hefting a 5 year old is totally different from learning to use weights in a controlled way. As for an orthopaedic referral - do you realise people are having to wait 2 years to be seen at the moment?

OP, see a physio, as PPs have advised. The physio will be able to guide you on whether any investigations (e.g. MRI) are needed.

I also have bad knees. See a physio (and do the exercises!) before things get too bad. I find cycling good because I can exercise without weight on the knees. Make sure your seat is set so that the leg fully extends though.

In my experience, they will both get better once you stop having to lift and carry children. For a brief window before they get buggered again by age. 😂

It's all downhill I afraid. First hand knowledge

Yes, we're all absolutely shit and love seeing people suffer.

We are inundated with offers of NHS services for our patients, with short waiting times and easy referral pathways, but we choose to ignore them, because we are shit and love seeing people suffer.

We never get pressured not to refer. We never get told that, if we refer anything non-urgent, we are stopping urgent cases being seen. We are never blamed if we do, and blamed if we don't. We just don't refer because we are shit and love seeing people suffer.

I had this and was sent for x ray. It was osteoarthritis in both knees, hips and back. I had to change my diet to an anti inflammatory one and get to the lower end of my healthy BMI. I am now symptom free.

My knees are agony. No idea why, never been injured or anything. Just increasingly frequent and unpleasant episodes of pain in one or both kneecaps, to the point I now have to lope down the stairs saying "fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck" like a foul-mouthed hunchback of Notre Dame

This is me!

I'm younger than you, no children.

Also have back problems. Because of which, my knees take on greater strain. I've started physio and 121 pilates which is helping massively. Some days I'm completely pain free!

I'm only a month in so far too :)

Seriously- good pilates teacher and some physio will sort you out. Really recommend you at least see a physio first because you need to know what muscles have got weak and which parts of your body are guarding, just embarking on a fitness regime - even one focused on strength - won't help and risks further injury.

Look for a pilates teacher who's well certified and you'll be away.

Losing 3st and doing a lot more exercise (mostly yoga and swimming) has helped with my knees a lot.

If you do swimming, you should be wary of doing breast stroke with a bad back - all that turning the legs out can exacerbate problems. Front crawl and back crawl are great, though.

Who are these magic GPs who actually take an interest in making you better???

Mine seem to be pretty good. I thought I might just change my address to the surgery at one point..

Yes absolutely, see a physio. When I went, it took a few weeks of doing the recommended exercises consistently to get the full benefit. Don't give up!

Also, I found this pilates routine helpful

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow catch a grip. That's not remotely what I said. I was reporting what had happened to me when I have attended my GP practice for the bad knees/severe PMS symptoms post childbirth/my child's allergy symptoms/any number of other issues. The only help I have ever actually had was when I walked in having done my research and said "I have had a breakdown and am taking time off work, please can I have a sick note for two weeks and a prescription for a starting dose of citalopram, say 20mg and see how I go?" GP did my blood pressure then said OK. That was 5 mins well spent.

It is precisely because health services are underfunded and under pressure I don't get help. I understand that. Still doesn't help me with my knees though.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow I had a great experience with my GP. He organised xrays, diagnosed severe osteoarthritis, referred me to orthopaedics, I was seen there a month later and had my first hip replacement 2 months after that. You're doing a great job in very difficult times.

It's definitely not a 2 year wait everywhere for a referral, as someone said. Mine was very short, and my MIL was also very quick with hers.

18mo of being triaged to phone calls with the surgery physio it came to crisis point and I was seen by the MSK team (physio). 30 minutes later diagnosed with severe osteoarthritis in my left hip (suspect knee too). Three weeks later with no follow up, I chased the GP and I have a call (sigh) in three weeks hence. My life until recently was filled with exercise, at 162.5cm and 56kg I have no weight to lose, and in pretty much constant pain. I do as much as I can physically but it's not improving. The NICE guidance on Friday which said basically I must be fat and lazy was a real kick in the teeth. I am at an absolute loss quite frankly.

If your knees hurt when you walk it's likely an issue with feet. I had an identical problem as you - my knees were very painful after my first child was born. To the point where I could barely walk, no stairs, no kneeling etc. turned out I have very flat feet and needed custom orthotics. Plus needed non impact exercise to strengthen my quads and glutes. Took a while but a year later my pain was gone and never came back. I always wear orthotics, avoid impact activity and swim/weight train. However the damage to knees (torn meniscus) is irreversible - so I fully expect trouble in my later years.

If you are in London I can recommend an excellent shop for gait and orthotics.

Also want to add, before chasing the GP/ physio route - get your gait and feet checked (you only need to go to any shop that specialise in this). Not having the right foot solution will mean any physio success will be short lived.