AIBU to think that short skirts and cleavage are totally inappropriate professional dress?

[Shamwari22]

Following the recent shenanigans about Angela Rayner crossing and uncrossing her legs while wearing a mini-skirt to throw Boris Johnson off his stride ... And further back, I was cringing at Theresa May standing outside No 10 as she took office as PM, flashing her cleavage. I really think if women wish to be taken seriously in politics and the professions, that they should not flash the flesh. In parliament, men are expected to wear jacket and tie, so why should women not have similar professional dress guidelines?

Good examples for me are the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg and Emma Vardy wearing very structured suits and coats that do not distract at all from what they are saying.

Yes exactly that, serial provocateur

Troll = someone who intentionally provokes a contentious debate to try and set one poster against another because they enjoy stirring up the resulting animosity

Alternatively

Troll = a poster who feeds off the pain or upset of others by belittling or demeaning them, or suggesting a very negative outcome or motive for the issue / person they are posting for advice about.

In the case of this thread, it's actually producing a really interesting and fairly civil exchange of differing views.

But in another thread a day or so ago, the OP asked for advice about reportedly now feeling guilty for having tricked her DP into thinking she was on contraception and then getting pregnant against his wishes. It produced a heated debate. The thread quickly got pulled as the OP had form for doing exactly this and had previously been banned for it.

I applaud the use of lyrics - I'd suggest meeting half way in the middle though - which to be fair is where most women are. Men should be able to get away with suit and no tie for example.

Re the how much cleavage question - Theresa May picture 1 upthread fine, picture 2 not fine.

This is stupid women should be able to wear what they want and men should be able to look at what they want. We should stop telling women what to wear or telling men where they can or can't look.

Walking tits on a stick. Brilliant 🤣

The latest trick (at every school ever!) is to fold over the waistband to raise the skirt hem. They are told not to do this.

Not sure that's the 'latest stick.'
Girls at school have been rolling their waistbands over for decades!

I’m sure I shall attract some derision here but here goes. Someone I used to work with regularly wore a deep v back dress something like this but with short sleeves. Fine for a night out or formal occasion, unprofessional looking in the office.

@CounsellorTroi - I know exactly what you mean, but it does make you realise how weird the whole thing is. Because there's nothing even slightly sexual / reproductive about a back. It is just we're not used to seeing it on show.

So the Victorians couldn't even have an ankle without it being seen as provocative.

Is it just social norms or too much of any skin that is the issue?

TBF the naked body is designed to be sexually attractive and people find various bits of it alluring, including backs. (Think of all the threads on here about men’s attractive forearms and other parts.) So it’s probably more professional to cover up at least somewhat.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4071139-weirdly-attractive-features

😅😅 What a thing to be thinking about. Did you parachute in from 1945?

Well, are they taken seriously dressed like that? Obviously you don't take them seriously dressed like that?

I don't take any politician seriously so I wouldn't know.

MPs haven't been required to wear ties in parliament since about 2017. The only requirement is for 'business-like' attire.

I've noticed a fair few male MPs with open neck shirts whilst watching debates or PMQs.

@Collardgreens

You asked what a troll was in MN terms. I replied but realise I didn't tag you (I was the one that said troll upthread!)

"A pp says that you are a troll? What is a ‘troll’ in MN terminology? I realise that no one is accusing you of guarding bridges from billy goats, but it means something different here, doesn’t it? Like a sort of serial provocateur?"

Yes exactly that, serial provocateur

Troll = someone who intentionally provokes a contentious debate to try and set one poster against another because they enjoy stirring up the resulting animosity

Alternatively

Troll = a poster who feeds off the pain or upset of others by belittling or demeaning them, or suggesting a very negative outcome or motive for the issue / person they are posting for advice about.

In the case of this thread, it's actually producing a really interesting and fairly civil exchange of differing views.

But in another thread a day or so ago, the OP asked for advice about reportedly now feeling guilty for having tricked her DP into thinking she was on contraception and then getting pregnant against his wishes. It produced a heated debate. The thread quickly got pulled as the OP had form for doing exactly this and had previously been banned for it.

So the aim of womens clothing should be to avoid distracting the men? How interesting. Would that not result in needing to be completely covered in flowing dark colour (so as not to draw attention), with hair covered, maybe even the face… so as not to distract. And if you assume it is womens fault that men can’t keep their eyes in their head and their mind on their job then it follows that women who do draw attention to themselves are asking for other (mis)treatment. What a dangerous way to undo all of the work carried out by generations of women for equality and respect. Also FWIW I strongly believe that the vast majority of men (and women) are more than capable of recognising a woman is beautiful and still able to keep their minds on their job, their opinions to themselves, and treat that woman with the respect she deserves for her character, intellect and capability. It is a very few who choose to push this agenda for their own interests.

I think there is something incredibly sexy about a man is a shirt with the sleeves rolled up showing off their forearms, but I dont demand they cover their arms up in case im overcoming with lust and there is no fainting couch nearby.

There are male mps being investigated for sexual assault, next to that I couldnt give a flying fuck what the female mps are wearing. But its always easier to police womens dress than mens behaviour isnt it 🤔

Just to be the voice of optimism, I really do all of these things at work (except straining shirt buttons, i prefer loose clothing) and have never sensed I wasn't meeting expectations.

Me too - except the shirt buttons, it's been decades since I bought/wore anything that requires ironing.

@jaffacakesareepic

"There are male mps being investigated for sexual assault, next to that I couldnt give a flying fuck what the female mps are wearing. But its always easier to police womens dress than mens behaviour isnt it 🤔"

Yes that's a really good point. I agree.

They always seem to be more smartly dressed than most other professionals and It's definitely deflecting from more important issues.

I wouldn't be surprised if Boris himself was the MP that went to the media re Angela Rayner

@Shamwari22

I was cringing at Theresa May standing outside No 10 as she took office as PM, flashing her cleavage.

This is the level of 'flashing her cleavage' that makes you cringe? Really? You must really not like women simply existing in their women's bodies if that's the case.

She's not exactly wearing a Jodie Marsh crossover belt bra is she? Utterly ridiculous.

I'm all for women dressing as they wish but sometimes I do wonder if some I see have a mirror or give any thought to how they look when they bend over or cross their legs.
Argue with me if you want but chunky thighs and low cut tops revealing huge amounts of cleavage and leaving nothing to the imagination is not a good look in any situation let alone the workplace.
As to the men in tight Lycra the same applies but for the most part they are least on bikes

@youvegottenminuteslynn -

I totally agree. I think she looks the perfect stateswoman in that outfit. And that's from a committed Tory-phobe.

I really wish she was still prime minister rather than this utter load of self seeking, shambolic, public school arses.

Just saying.

Who’s Emma Vardy, OP?

Psssssst, your internalised misogyny is showing.

I agree with this.
The hypersexualised men, who think women are there for them to leer at, film, grope, cat call, etc and who constantly watch porn, often in public, are the ones who should be publicly shamed.
Where's the outrage for this sort of culture?

Not just thighs, but chunky thighs no less!

It must be exhausting disliking women so much.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Mmm... that just makes me want a peanut butter chunky kitkat...