"Learn to code"

[Howaboutnope]

I've read this on a few threads recently - IT is where the money is at. But its all double dutch to me- I'd love to learn and try a new career and earn more money but I'm 34 and really don't have much IT knowledge bar the basics and using a laptop everyday. Is it really that easy to learn?! And how does it translate into a new career? Tips for dummies welcome!

I have a mathematics background, am a proficient coder and problem solver. But don't earn big bucks at all.

When young I could sit in front of the computer from dawn to dusk, now it pains me for more than an hour a go. And I hate it!

I still like coding though. But it's a lethal time waste. Juniors earn more than me, even ones that can barely code.

I just want to note that there are so many different tech jobs. You could enjoy spreadsheets or databases, and specialise in that area alone. You could work with existing software, know how to use it, to glue it together. Without writing any code. In fact unless you actually enjoy coding, I would urge you to avoid.

I have a friend who has earned a living installing and supporting one piece of software for clients. He doesn't code. Just knows the product well.

Python isn't a bad first choice, if you do want to try some coding. Try writing a small game. Like a guessing game, and go from there.

I’m going to be harsh. OP you don’t sound very technically literate and many people who aren’t developers would have more idea of the things being discussed on here than you appear to. You are really starting from ground zero and there are some very odd suggestions on this thread.

My advice would be read around what roles within software development appeal to you (there is a v broad spectrum) and then look to undertake a professional qualification. You won’t be getting paid without it. There are big buck to be made but people I know doing that have degrees, years experience, working on prestige projects. Lots of people on good mid tier salaries as web designers for smaller sites etc. This is also incredibly competitive from low cost labour via India which has a huge number of developers.

I hope you find your passion and are successful.

I am using some paid for courses on udemy to expand my skillset. Look at the courses that have tens of thousands of good reviews and have been recently updated. wait until they have discounts on the courses (they should cost £13-20 - if u are paying more, then just wait as usually they will do another sale very soon). There are also some free courses Or YouTube videos or websites that will do the same thing (take you step by step, line by line through a project) - but make sure you do one that has been updated recently as tools/languages change and sometimes the same code won’t work due to different versions (which is why I like to use the recently updated udemy courses - as they have detected many of these issues and let you know how to fix them).

basically you just copy what the instructor does. Sounds dumb, but when you type it out, it helps you learn. You figure out what some common errors are and where to look for simple typos. Look on the comments sections of the videos to see if anyone has had the same problem as you. Gradually you get better and then start customising the ‘example’ project - adding a new functionality or look.

How/where did you retrain? I work in education and something like this appeals to me.

@Hutchy16 Despite all the hype it’s actually really hard to do ne

I agree with you there. My point was more that not bothering to even try and learn code because of younger candidates who've grown up with it is defeatist. OP may find they actually really enjoy it, and are good at it, we don't know. We can make some assumptions from what we've read, but for all we know they have other skills that would make coding easier for them. They should at least do some research.

I think people who are interested in this sort of thing, are quite well into it by the age of 10.
And super good by 16.

Maybe for younger generations, but there's still plenty of people out there who didn't have the opportunities or encouragement (especially women) to get into coding that young. Doesn't mean they wouldn't be good at it given the chance to learn.

@Hutchy16

Despite all the hype

1. 'Coding' can mean anything from writing some short bits to automate easy stuff, data analysis to creating complex systems requiring a high degree of skill
2. Not many people go on to become technical experts. However with the diversity push it's very easy for a woman to become a software developer, and then change into one of the many auxiliary roles which suits them better
3. It's very hard to find GOOD technical staff. A combination of companies' unwilligness to train, natural aptitude and a lack of structured learning.

Let's say 100 people learn to code, only 10 are good. If 1000 people learn, 100 would be good. Still the same percentage, but widening the pool produces more potential.

There are very big boom and bust cycles however, also offshoring etc as PP have stated. Furthermore with the hundreds of skills, niches, subdomains etc a 'technical' career needs a lot of active, strategic management. Unlike an accountant, lawyer or surgeon, you don't 'become qualified' in something and then sit pretty for the rest of your life.

Salesforce for example - that's the current big thing, and people are making money as consultants. When the next thing comes into fashion, they'll learn that, and go.

There will continue to be astronomical salaries for people who are good at their jobs. But again, not the majority. Compared to a lot of other professions however it's still good pay.

I have coached a lot of career changers/students and I advse them, for money, go into non-technical. There's no shame in wanting a career for money (in fact the 'you must love coding to succeed' is damaging. Nobody says that an accountant or investment banker needs 'passion'). But it's not easy money, more so if you hate it.

Interestingly a lot of 'career devs' hate programming for work. I'm 50/50. I have been in great teams where I was excited. And boring AF teams where all we did was fix bugs, and handle things breaking. It really broke my spirit.

You won't hear much of this though. Again, survivor bias. But many see 'coding' as an entry way, they give up technical stuff after less than a year. I'd suggest you search 'non-technical tech careers' as well...

I do think there is a natural aptitude, so someone that is a little logical and a problem solver will take to it better.

But I am always surprised at the wide gamut of skills and abilities, and complete lack of in the sector.

There's a small saying along the lines that programmers write 15 lines of code per day or something. There's lots of thinking, reworking, concentration. Heck sometimes I bit a brick wall and a walk fixes it. Some times I can't code at all. And when my head is in a project, it eats into every evening and all my waking hours. Which takes me to another point. Actually being able to code is a fragment of the job. Time management, prioritising, discussion, appraisal is very valuable. People can be good on a computer, bit useless with people. Some managers know how to deal with it. Coders are kind of a special breed.

I have worked with people that can not program but they can cut and paste, and have a feel for how something should work. They literally throw shit at the wall until it sticks. And they get the job done. I would even suggest at one place of work out of a team of ten 'coders', only two had the vaguest understanding. And the one that had a computer science degree was pretty useless. However, as a team it kind of worked.

@lightand NOT TRUE.
Do we expect accountants to have started by age 10? Doctors? lawyers?
If not, why this rubbish about coding?
The media hype is stupid.
Yes quite a lot of people started that way but it just means they have a bit of advantage.
Doesn't mean anyone else shouldn't try.
I got my first computer at 16. SIXTEEN. Am from a 'developing' country. I also had to share the thing with my entire family.

Today I'm a technical staff among people who have been programing since they were 5. They may have had an edge, at the beginning, but I've caught up.
'technical' things are not scary. It, like maths, is one fo things that had sooo much hype and been overblown until people are scared. Also because most teachers suck at it. Bollocks. People are politics are harder and more unpredictable.

Unlike an accountant, lawyer or surgeon, you don't 'become qualified' in something and then sit pretty for the rest of your life.

I respect your opinion on coding, but this is wildly inaccurate. In law, the qualification is pretty much a technicality and the job can’t be done without a commitment to continual learning, amassing experience and keeping up with legal developments. I think that the kind of comparison you are looking for is more akin to eg getting an HGV licence.

@HoleLottaLove true.
The standard of coding in the world is actually quite shit.
No tests, sphagetti code, no understanding of basic principles.

A lot of DP's uni friends (Computing gradds) work at small, local manufacturing companies wiritng little bits. They're not very good at all, but it works.

This is changing though... with everything depending on tech there's going to be more accountability needed. Back in the day pprogrammers could just do what they wanted. Now there are IT audits, even code quality audits in some places, etc.

For me I also get in the zone... I hyperfocus. Why meditate when you can write code??? I also love talking to people though, so I have gone for more technical leadership as well.

Tech is a lot more of a popularity contest than people realise. 'New languages' need to gain a following, everyone will use the most popular tool because of the community and help docs. More so than any other field, the need to get people on board is actually stronger, Anybody who thnks it's just in a room and not talking is sorely mistaken

@HaveringWavering no. I stand by what I said. I used to be in accounting, which is similar.
Yes, you need to have 'CPD' etc, but once you're a qualified accountant, or have passed the bar. That's yours for life. You need to be current, but you do not need to sit whole other qualifications. You are adding to your knowledge, not learning entiely new things. You are a qualified professional

In software there's no such thing as a 'qualified software developer'. You need to pick up things that you've never seen before. it's on a different level. You need to sometimes rewire your mind. And I speak with knoweldge as I have done both.

OP, something you may want to look into is the proliferation of “low code” and “no code” app/software development platforms. Google “Betty Blocks” or “Fliplet” for an example. Organisations that want to develop apps sometimes buy these platforms and then take on people to develop using them. My own employer has ventured into this and what we have found is that it’s still too much for, say, a general admin assistant to be given the development project, but we don’t need to employ people with advanced coding skills either. We use contract staff who are numerate/technically competent, possibly have used the platform before, and might have a bit of basic understanding of coding, but they are not coders as such. We don’t pay them very well, I admit, but we particularly look for proper with good communication skills who can understand the business perspective on what we are developing. They work hand in hand with a “Product Owner”, who is the person in the business who specifies what is needed and represents the eventual end users throughout development.

I respectfully disagree @MountainDewer. I can’t put a newly-qualified lawyer on to a case to handle by him or herself. I can’t let them loose advising a client without supervision. Having “qualified” doesn’t remotely equip them with the technical skills to do the job competently and we would be negligent if we held them out as such. That only comes with experience and working alongside more senior lawyers. Perhaps accountancy is different.

>I know what coders do and I would find it mind numbingly boring.

Sorry - you don't. Coding can be beautiful and hugely satisfying. Those saying you can spend days lookin for a single fault need to look a their development life cycle.

OP - the best way to learn is to 'scratch an itch' - find something in the field that you want to do then work out how - remembering that with code there will always be a way.

Following. Thanks.

I've read this on a few threads recently - IT is where the money is at.

This line says it all, having left a really long successful career in IT, because I got fed-up with it, I got into IT because it was of interest to me from my first computer computer as kid, with a ZX81 writing tiny programs from the back of cereal boxes. Wanting to get into coding just for the money you really do need to evaluate, it takes a certain kind of person with a set mind sett. You have to be interested and if you have had no interest up until now and just because your chasing the money tree, I'm not sure your onto a good thing.

There was literally a massive thread about this only a week or two ago.

Have to smile at people suggest OP tries Python to get going, the first program I ever wrote was in CESIL, and I didn't get the output from it for a week!

I did basic stuff many years ago, I remember building a website in 1996 but it was not for me. DH can code it is not his actual job, he can code in a few different languages, he is a scientist by trade. My friends DS is a coder as are a couple of my friends. They are the type that are earning good money, the 23 year DS of my friend is already on almost 60k. Two took computer science at University and one read for his PhD in a science subject, he codes for an investment bank.

The friends DS was at a hackathon a few years ago, I was at hers that weekend. They spent 24 hours trying to break a companies systems and his team won, it was a lot of money for a sixth former.

I think some have a natural aptitude.

@HaveringWavering ? Nobody says that someone newly qualified can do everything. The point is that there's a structured learning and qualifying process. Exactly the same in accounting and law. perhaps accounting is different as they do the papers while working, lawyers don't *obvioulsy a solicitor isn't the same as a barrisyer etc' but the principle is exactly the same. Get training contract, get relevant work experience.

There's no such thing for tech. 10 different people will give you 10 different paths. A lot move into things that have nothing to do with their current jobs, no 'experience/working with experienced people', just self-learning, contributing to open source etc.

The REASON why this is relevant ? People want an easy answer. They want someone to say 'do this,then you can earn 100K and will be much in demand'. This is in fact the original question in the OP, and the number one question I get asked after years in industry.

It doesn't work that way. The more you know, the more different paths unfold, and it's really hard to decide which to follow. Most self-taught start as web devs because that's what most bootcamps are for. But after that... continue to specialise in whatever language they learnt? Become full stack? Move to backend, infrastructure, cybersecurity? There's no guarantee. And different companies want different skills, and there are a thousand clickbait articles saying 'learn this and make 100K', ignoring the fact that the '100K' people's package of skills got them the job, not that one thing on the ad. Adding to the confusion.

Anyway you may continue to reply saying 'but lawyers can do niche things do', or something to that effect. But I doubt that it'd add much value to the discussion... as the point isn't that really

Quite frustrating when people imply that 'anyone' can do it and all you need to do is watch a few YouTube vids, do an online course and you'll be minted.

I work for an ERP software and consulting business on the consulting side, not software as, although I have a BSc (Hons) in maths and IT and am a competent coder, I joined as a former supply chain director rather than a techie.

We employ quite a few programmers across several offices around Europe and, without exception, the best ones we have, writing the most efficient and technically competent code, are the maths and computer science grads. These are the people we are paying extremely well and have to fight to keep due to the competition to employ them.

Absolutely you can learn at home and indeed might well turn out to be a good coder, have the right aptitude, be lucky and get a good job but, IMO, it's worlds apart from the top-end elite programmers out there.

This is not meant in anyway to wee on anyone's chips, so to speak, but I don't see it as any different to a lot of other 'get rich quick' employment scenarios. If you are good you'll get on but it's not a magic bullet and many, many people can't and won't ever do well or earn good money (£50k+) at this.

Not that many years ago it was "become a plumber and earn £100k with a few night school courses!" etc, etc.

Just be realistic...

@FrankieStein403 yes, that company which tooke me ages to find an error wasn't the best. But the error wasn't exxactly in our code in the end. It was an infrastructure issue... and took ages of battling to even allow us access 😥

There are many shitty companies though. I like doing stuff in my nice home env, not always on the job.

I do find the PP who say 'coding is boring' strange. Unlike open heart surgery, skyscraper construction or spying there's a very easy way to find out... as you said as well. people's individual opinion doesn't matter, as we are all differemt.

R.e. the challenges of the job itself... that's a different issue.